 Poster: A snowHead
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Worrying that the document mentions winter 21/22, is there any guarantee that the charade will finish and skiing access to the summit will be available in season 22/23
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I’ll save you the bother of worrying. No.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It sounds as if the more work that is done, the more problems are found and that there isn’t at this point a final design solution to all the issues with the Funicular viaduct. From the extremely heavily redacted document and what was said at the Aviemore and Glenmore Community Trust AGM last month, it seems a decision on proceeding with the required renewal of the funicular safety and control system will only be taken once the viaduct strengthening works are signed off.
The chances of it running next season are slim and slim is preparing to leave the building! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not certain, but hasn't Glenshee got plans for a new chairlift?
| Peter S wrote: |
The new Plateau triple is great news for Scottish skiing fans and comes as a particular high point in a long spell of positive projects there.  |
Agreed, the new base station cafe to replace the old one burnt down in the unfortunate fire is a good addition.
If only the powers that be running Cairngorm had half the wisdom and competence of those running Glencoe and the other Scottish ski areas then the ongoing fiasco at Cairngorm would be very different.
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Permission to replace the cairnwell tbar with a 4 person chair will probably have expired several years ago. I suspect the money and any grant support for that was diverted into their new snow factory. I also wonder whether there would be demand these days for more uplift capacity at Glenshee?
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| Peter S wrote: |
Perhaps the only significant improvement remaining on the hill is the extension of the plateau cafe which might increase revenue on busy days ? |
That is why they built the road 
Longer term plan was to use the road to help build the new chairlift and a cafe.
Building a road cost them same as getting in a heli to construct the chairlift.
Apparently new cafe will eventually be located at top of the new Rannoch Chair
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| Peter S wrote: |
| I also wonder whether there would be demand these days for more uplift capacity at Glenshee? |
That depends : If they get snow there is huge demand for skiing at Glenshee.
While they don't get a long season they can attract 20K punters a day when all the lifts out to Glas Maol are spinning.
Just a shame their last decent winter (2021) was under complete covid lockdown.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Haggis_Trap,
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Apparently new cafe will eventually be located at top of the new Rannoch Chair
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That’s an interesting idea. It would move the cafe up the hill another 300 feet to 2600’. It would centre skiers in an area with more options, more reliable snow, and better views as well as increase demand to use the new chair. Clever.
When it’s too windy to run the chair it will be a bit further to walk for sledgers but skiers can get close via the Poma or by skiing down from the wall tbar.
I wonder if the idea is to use the new space created underneath the chairlift get-off ramp?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@haggishunter, excellent!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
Scottish Daily Express reports HIE have put out a tender for conveyor belt uplift
The report is confusing at best, at one point it says the conveyor belt will be located at the learners area (which makes sense), then it goes on to say it could be used as a temporary alternative "if the funicular breaks down again"  How's that meant to work then, the funicular (if it does actually ever operate again) goes a long way up the mountain to the Ptarmigan restaurant (or whatever their brilliant marketing people call it now, wasn't it renamed "1097"? ), I can't see a conveyor belt system going anywhere near that distance. Even if they're just talking about linking it to the cas and M1 lifts it would still need to go as high as the top of the car park T-bar, which is still a very long way for a conveyor belt magic carpet....  |
The report is boll***s based on a HIE press a release that was probably boll***s. Really ambitious magic carpet?? Well, yes a magic carpet that went to the Ptarmigan would certainly be ambitious, hell even one to the to of the Carpark T-bar would be ambitious. But alas no, the combined length of the two magic carpets will be slightly under 180m.
Basically the genesis at CML have came up with this incredible wheeze that they could have a combined beginner ski and beginner mountain bike zone. What they seem to have overlooked is that while first time skiers come as absolute beginners, you don’t go to a mountain bike park to learn to ride a bike for the first time!
It’s also pretty unbelievable that HIE’s blackmail of ScotGov has been successful again, which basically with the help of list Tory MSPs went along the lines of we’re going to fix the funicular whatever it takes / costs, so either give us more money or we’ll make the rest of the Highlands suffer by pulling funding from the rest of the HIE area and pouring it all into CairnGorm Mountain.
Unless an external party is going to come in bringing a 9 figure sum to the table, any rational assessment now has to be not £1 more and close down the CML business, commence dismantling the funicular.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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On a slight side note does anyone know why the lecht have announced that their chairlift is out of use until further notice
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Poster: A snowHead
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@kb36, no but messaged them last Friday to get more info on mtb uplift tickets and they said it should be running all weekend weather permitting, so must be something unexpected... glad we didn't make it on Sunday after all or we could have spent the day stuck on a broken chair 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| haggishunter wrote: |
| Unless an external party is going to come in bringing a 9 figure sum to the table, any rational assessment now has to be not £1 more and close down the CML business, commence dismantling the funicular. |
As I have said, it needs to stand on its own feet or scrap it.
| haggishunter wrote: |
| It’s also pretty unbelievable that HIE’s blackmail of ScotGov has been successful again, which basically with the help of list Tory MSPs went along the lines of we’re going to fix the funicular whatever it takes / costs, so either give us more money or we’ll make the rest of the Highlands suffer by pulling funding from the rest of the HIE area and pouring it all into CairnGorm Mountain. |
Whats the story on this?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ster wrote: |
As I have said, it needs to stand on its own feet or scrap it. |
Most Scottish skiers would tend to agree with you there...
I used to be jealous of the public money spent on Cairngorm ski area compared to other areas.
However they used that public subsidy to focus on trainset + cafe (rather than a ski area & year round sports).
The problem is that removing the funicular now means:
1) The end of skiing on Cairngorm.
2) HIE admitting their previous mistakes.
| haggishunter wrote: |
| It’s also pretty unbelievable that HIE’s blackmail of ScotGov has been successful again |
| ster wrote: |
| Whats the story on this? |
Basically HIE threatened Scot Gov that unless further funding was provided the money for repair would need to come from their annual budget impacting the region disproportionately. There is no easy answer - however Holyrood has had wool pulled over its eyes. Even once repaired the funicular will require ongoing annual subsidy as unlike Aonach Mor gondola it is no use for hiking / biking / year round summer trade.
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My own recipe for easily improved skiing is the Braveheart lift to be open more often at Aonach More.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| snowball wrote: |
| My own recipe for easily improved skiing is the Braveheart lift to be open more often at Aonach More. |
Yup.
Sadly that is another story : If rumour to be believed neither braveheart or warrens likely to run anytime soon. The common theme with Cairngorm being HIE influence....
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| Quote: |
| The funicular...is no use for hiking / biking / year round summer trade |
The year-round coffee and cake hunters and railway enthusiasts who visit Cairngorm specially to ride it seem to suggest otherwise. For instance, there always seemed to be a fair number of them whenever I used the train in ski seasons that extended into April and May.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The funicular...is no use for hiking / biking / year round summer trade |
The year-round coffee and cake hunters and railway enthusiasts who visit Cairngorm specially to ride it seem to suggest otherwise. For instance, there always seemed to be a fair number of them whenever I used the train in ski seasons that extended into April and May. |
Usually organised coach groups paying less than it cost to run the train in the hope they’d spend enough in the Ptarmigan.
I was told in 2004 it was costing £15 of electricity each time the purple pig moved! Multiply that up to current unit price and you get the picture…
Though coach parties (and numbers getting of the bus to use the train) were dropping off steadily by the time it closed. Standing up in a moving vehicle prone to random sudden stops and even in summer a 1 in 3 chance of only seeing the inside of a cloud have put those coach groups that want to do a mountain very firmly to Nevis Range!
The funicular wasn’t viable before closure, with a more complicated structure requiring more maintenance after the viaduct repairs and given electricity costs it certainly isn’t viable now.
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Thanks for that info. haggishunter - very interesting.
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The funicular wasn’t viable before closure, with a more complicated structure requiring more maintenance after the viaduct repairs and given electricity costs it certainly isn’t viable now. |
So just what the hell can possibly be done with it in the long term?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@mountainaddict, it can only continue operating with an ongoing subsidy of several hundred thousand pounds each year which I'm sure HIE are more than happy to demand from the taxpayer.
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| Quote: |
It can only continue operating with an ongoing subsidy of several hundred thousand pounds each year which I'm sure HIE are more than happy to demand from the taxpayer.
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Phew! Thank goodness for that! Every cloud and all that...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@haggishunter, I wasn't sure of the exact annual loss at Cairngorm, hence my references to several hundred thousand pounds annual subsidy required. I'm not in the least bit surprised to hear that it's substantially more.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
Thanks for that info. haggishunter - very interesting.
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The funicular wasn’t viable before closure, with a more complicated structure requiring more maintenance after the viaduct repairs and given electricity costs it certainly isn’t viable now. |
So just what the hell can possibly be done with it in the long term? |
Open up the mountain so people can enjoy the summit for starters. What the hell is the point is going to the top of a mountain, only to be refused access to the outside and to stare at it from a cafe. It’s a complete farce and a business model that hasn’t been repeated on any mountain top visitor attraction anywhere else in the world. Granted it’s a delicate area with certain plants, but create pathways, teach people about the rare fauna up there and the tourists will return once again.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
Open up the mountain so people can enjoy the summit for starters. What the hell is the point is going to the top of a mountain, only to be refused access to the outside and to stare at it from a cafe. It’s a complete farce and a business model that hasn’t been repeated on any mountain top visitor attraction anywhere else in the world. Granted it’s a delicate area with certain plants, but create pathways, teach people about the rare fauna up there and the tourists will return once again. |
In the grand financial scheme of things the closed system is basically noise. Removing it would only make a very marginal improvement, the system is only closed outwith the ski season.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Fair point, well made Ricklovesthepowder.
The visitors trapped in top station situation at Cairngorm just completely takes the P1$$. As you allude to, it's funny how every other lift-accesed mountain in the world somehow manages the issue of (God forbid) people being allowed to get off lifts and roam free..
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Poster: A snowHead
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What would it cost to reinstate the old chairlift. Is it really necessary to remove the funicular if it isn't being used? The funicular is there now being unsightly so it would just continue being what it is. Before the funicular this was a nice ski resort.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowball wrote: |
| What would it cost to reinstate the old chairlift. |
The old chairlift was too hard to use.
Glenshee has recently installed a used fixed grip chairlift, the cost of doing that will be known, there must be a few other chairlifts available that have been upgraded by other resorts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rjs wrote: |
The old chairlift was too hard to use.
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Think there might be some confusion there? The old chairlift was a detachable chairlift where the chairs were not just slowed down but brought to a complete halt for loading and unloading.
Any chairlift going up the to the Ptarmigan level would pretty much have to be detachable grip with off line carrier storage. The mountain haul road would reduce installation costs vs some locations, put you’d be pushing £6.6-£8m for six seater detachable on the line of the old T-bar.
The funicular is legally required to be removed under the section 30 agreement. The nature of the viaduct means that one day it has to completely come down - what we have now is a £21m plus can kicking exercise to save face (and maybe more importantly preventing a more detailed look at its past).
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The old chairlift was from a completely different era, I've never been on quite like it. A "modern" fixed would be far better but a detachable would be wonderful. Doesn't the funicular take a line further to the right looking up the mountain than the old chairlift?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
The old chairlift was from a completely different era
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... you had to take your skis off & sit sideways-on (some say to reduce windage)
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Nice one@geoffers, Happy memories. Were the Ciste chairs normal, ie forward facing?
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@geoffers, brilliant picture. @Rogerdodger, the Ciste chairlifts were conventional forward facing fixed grips.
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Wow, I had forgotten that!
OK then, how about another drag lift. It wouldn't be so subject to wind. I'm looking for something cheap that goes from the bottom. Further up it could go right beside the one that only does the steeper upper part of the White Lady. (Is that one still there? It's a few years since I skied in the East.)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Couldn't they just keep prevaricating and claiming not to have enough money to demolish yet?
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| stevew wrote: |
| Doesn't the funicular take a line further to the right looking up the mountain than the old chairlift? |
The Funicular track runs up the White Lady parallel to the old chairlift line, at the mid-station, it fits between the old Sheiling Cafe and where the Chairlift station was. Indeed when queuing at the mid-station you are standing on the old chairlift station which is still partially in place as it houses Hydro Electric PD switching gear and substation.
http://www.winterhighland.info/pix/pixalbum.php?pix_id=191
Incidentally, the Vail Resorts operated Mt Perisher Double Chairlift in Australia is the same GMD model as the Coire na Ciste and West Wall Chairlifts were at Cairn Gorm, but it is a year older than the White Lady Chairlift would be if it were still in operation. The couldn't get parts, couldn't maintain it, dangerously obsolete, etc story from CML and HIE were just that, a story. HIE tell lies.
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FAQ
