Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry if this is a dumb question. Can an avalanche shovel be adapted for use as an emergency deadman anchor for crevasse rescue? I guess some sort of swaged wire harness could be threaded through holes in the shovel blade to get the correct angle to pull the blade down into the snow (just like a deadman).
I've never understood the wisdom of using burried skis as an anchor (when too much snow to get an an ice screw placement); moving around on a snow covered crevassed glacier without skis; having used them as a belay seems very dangerous.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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On the rocks, You can use pretty much anything as a deadman type anchor in decent snow. On a mountaineering course many (30!) years ago the Guide instructed us in setting up perfectly sound anchors using socks stuffed with snow - and they were sound enough to trust your life to . Burying a rucksack would do fine as well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've got an alugator shovel that has a couple of holes through the blade that I can fit a sling through, so that's handy. I've also used plastic bags stuffed with snow and buried as anchors for tent guylines before.
Skis have the advantage of being quite large and strong, so they can support quite a load, and it is slightly harder to set up a bad deadman. They're also handily available... if you need to set up a crevasse rescue belay, you're probably in quite a hurry.
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A lot of shovels are setup to be rigged that way but it sounds like a horrendous faff to sort that out unless absolutely required (e.g. you run out of any other anchors). What about carrying a snow picket instead if you don't want to use skis?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would agree with Serriadh
The ski anchor is used as it is easy and can hold the weight of two people, 200kg + forces + 10:1(?) safety margin. This is for the person in the crevasse and the potential need for a rescuer to descend on the rope incase the person is buried, or unconscious.
On The Rocks
Your very right to be wary of walking on glaciers where someone has just fallen in.
To do this safely use a prusik from your harness to the rescue rope (attached to the ski anchor). Then probe your way moving along the rescue rope with your prusik as a backup towards the crevasse lip. By probing you can detect where crevasses are and determine a safe work area, and if you do fall into the crevasse you can at least climb out using your prusiks.
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I'd be dubious about a prusik in that environment, waaaaaay too much ice/snow on the rope at that point I would have thought. Prob have to be an ascender pair instead.
If I had to use a shovel for that I'd simply use it as I would skis - as a deadman. And if I had skis, I'd use skis - why bother re-inventing the wheel? If you are performing a rescue down a hole then the odds of needing skis are minimal and I'd want to reduce weight and increase safety. If the shovel had a D handle I'd probably be tempted to use it as an anchor point behind a ski based deadman so that I had a minimal friction 'pulley' option rather than a static deadman (assuming I was not carrying the right kit). I'd have to have some faith in the shovel construction tho' ......
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For those who don't know already: a Deadman is something which you bury by digging a small trench for it and attach your rope to. Don't forget to cut a slot in the snow for the rope or the rope will pull the thing out of its hole.
You can also use nothing at all, other than the rope. See: http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/snow-anchor-options-part-i.html This is called a snow bollard (I have seen it used in Scotland once).
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I've never had any issues with the prusiks for climbing or hauling and over the last couple years. I tend to manage the rope so it keeps dry/ice free and I've been using new ropes rather then a furry haggered old one that could ice up more ?
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snowball, I'm not I'd trust a snow bollard for crevasse rescue though plus you'd need more than a rope to rig that. Fun to abseil from though:
The cut in on the bollard there was two of us hanging on it and jumping up and down so they can be pretty strong!
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I've not made a bollard myself but imagine it could be useful where you don't want to leave an object behind at the top of an abseil.
I must say I find a ropeman much easier to use than a prusik - but my experience of all this is fairly limited.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowball, give it a go, it's very easy to do and worthwhile to work out how strong different kinds of snow is before actually having to use it in anger.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've used a deadman as a snow shovel! I spent an interesting afternoon rigging belays with all sorts of random kit, (skis, rucksacks, snow bollards, shovels) and then testing the strength. It was interesting and I would recommend it as an activity on a slow day.
These are useful and only require you to leave behind a bit of tat. http://www.needlesports.com/catalogue/content.aspx?con_id=ca1dfee1-4224-4679-a772-9cc30119a921
Two things stuck in my mind, how much rope can be needed which begs the question of the usefulness of a 30m ski rope, and how difficult it is to make an effective belay in very soft snow.
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jbob wrote: |
Two things stuck in my mind, how much rope can be needed which begs the question of the usefulness of a 30m ski rope, and how difficult it is to make an effective belay in very soft snow. |
I assume you are talking about bollards here. It seems to me you would need at least 20 metres to make the bollard so a 30m rope could only get you down over a cornice or something like that (the situation I saw one at Easy Gully with a big cornice).
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I've used a deadman as a snow shovel! |
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Its like a prussik, except you can use it to strip the mantle off your rope! Oh, and it'll do a terrible job of holding your troos up if you break your belt.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Serriadh, LOL.. I have to admit that I only use it as prussik back up. Use a longer sling and just don't weight it. But on icy ropes it stands a good chance of gripping
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have practiced on old ropes though and it doesn't seem to cause any problem, it's the cam action that grips the rope.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jbob wrote: |
...Two things stuck in my mind, how much rope can be needed which begs the question of the usefulness of a 30m ski rope...
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This is how I see it:
If you're carrying rope for a crevasse rescue, and the victim falls more than 30m worth, then the length of rope probably isn't going to be the main issue.
If you're carrying rope for a known decent, then you'll take as much rope as you need.
If you're carrying rope just in case, then two 30m ropes splits the load and means you always have a rope on the 'surface' should someone go in, or you can combine to get down something unexpected.
Sounds like a 30m rope is pretty useful to me???
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+1
Also the estimate of 20m of rope to setup a snow bollard seems very high to me. Mind you my ski rope is 40m long.
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meh, yes, you are right, I think I must have been confusing feet and metres or something.
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I'd still prefer the extra weight of an 8mm 50m rope if I wasn't positive about the terrain I'd end up in. Always allows for 25m abs from trees if you hit a cliff band in a forest.
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hum3, I think you have hit the nail on the head. What's needed is a minimum of two 30m ropes with one of those being at the back. Scarpa, if you are intending to use a rope for an ab then 50m makes sense.
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