 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Guys!
Late april and 'course this kind of topic gets more frequent, I tried avoid posting a new one and researched the most from other topic, but the "Where to Go" next season is currently my case and I figured I could use the community knowledge to help me here with this one.
So, family of 3 (1 child, 10yrs), we have skied a few times, try to do it once a year or every other year. Kid is still a beginner though (green/blue) mostly because she gets afraid or uncomfortable trying moving up . Same is the case for my wife, a 'very basic red'. We usually start the week by taking 2 half-day classes to polish, so a good school is important.
I understand the challenge of a mid-dec trip regarding snow, but I also understand that the needs regarding snow for a beginner is very different than for a more experienced off-piste skier. For me, I'm happy just enjoying my family whichever track they want to ski, as long as I manage to take 1 or 2 half-days to ski on my own. Knowing that, we're also comfortable in using the period to enjoy the family time (not only skiing), so the resort infra is almost as important (ice rink, sledding, christmas market!).
The problem? Experiences we have in mid winter (Late Jan, Feb) is not applicable now, early/mid december is a different game and the Alps are huge! So many options and yet so many uncertanties. I know many will say to wait till last time, but we're like 10-11h flight away, so waiting to plan is not an option.
Needs:
- comfortable green/blue combos for family, with good school for kids
- nice resort structure for other activities
- snow sure! given the mid-dec risk, but with snow preferably at resort level (ski-in/out?)
- not far from major airports - 2/2:30h drive (we're flying from South America)
- nice options of catered challets or half-board child-friendly hotels (to be honest, most experiences so far were on an 'all-inclusive' style such as Club Med or Chilean resorts. This would be a first 'make your own combo').
What I've come across in terms of 'snowsureness' but not certain which one is best given the needs:
- Italy: Alta Badia (Corava/Colfosco); Cervinia (any other?)
- France: Tignes, VT, d'Isere. Am I missing something? Any of the 1800/2000 resorts? (Huez maybe?)
- Austria: Lech/Oberlech, Hoch/Obergurgl? Other?
- Swiss: Lots of places, lots of CHF... let's skip this one for now 
That's it. Any input is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
ps: To be honest, on second thought Canada would do to but last time we went to Tremblant and Charlevoix in mid-december snow was not very good.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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HI
if you have any questions regarding Tignes-Valdisere in France, feel free to get in touch with me on instagram @tignes_instructor or by e-mail pascal.prot@skinewgen.com.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@PionerDS, welcome to SH's.
I know France the most - usually go Christmas but have been the week before too.
Paradiski will open on December 14th for sure and there will be plenty of piste skiing.
That and the other two French domains you mention will be good but quiet. They all have accommodation options and other activities though early season not everything might be happening.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 25-04-24 9:29; edited 1 time in total
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Been going to Saalbach/Hinterglemm in Austria mid December for many years - great intermediate ski area with 100% snow making so conditions always good even when the natural snow is a bit late coming.
There are several all inclusive family hotels there (friend's pre-teen kids went for free some years ago) - Google for "Saalbach family hotels"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Welcome, I always like a good where to go post thread
My view would be mid December is an excellent time to go to the usually expensive resorts because there will be bargains about.
I'd take a look at:
Tignes Le Lac, once the kids are up the Toviere gondola there's access to some of the best blue/green skiing in Europe on the plateau between Tignes and Val. You'll find plenty to enjoy the half days across the whole area. There is a swimming pool in the village with a water slide and a spa for the adults. I think swimming is free with a lift pass and you pay extra for the spa. Transfer is long ish but the snow is generally worth the trip.
Les Arcs 1950, Really excellent runs for your wife and kid in the valley and plenty of runs to progress onto without too big a step up. Likely to have plenty open for you all to ski. There are several long un-pisted black runs under the lifts for you if that's your thing. Also the steep red under the Varet gondola is really good. Relatively short transfer and can be done by train. Great compact village with excellent ski in ski out accommodation (I have seen some with catered options). It's busy and expensive peak season but this doesn't apply in mid December.
Saas Fee (in Switzerland), Specifically the hostel 4000 with a great pool, spa and you can add half or full board. It's relatively cheap and we have had several excellent holidays there with a young child. Snow should be excellent at village level. Extremely pretty car free village. Village slopes sound ideal for your child although moving up from them will be a challenge because there aren't a large number of blue runs further up the mountain. The reds down from the glacier and down from the middle sections are a bit steep and icy so be aware. Transfer from Geneva or Zurich can be done largely by train if that your thing. Some really large un-pisted black runs for you if you want something more challenging and the full decent (about 1.8km vertical from 3,600 to 1,800 or so) from top to bottom on the red runs is superb for a more advanced skier. Really great ski schools in my experience.
Ischgl, Snow will be excellent, lifts are really excellent, pretty accessible from Innsbruck. You may be able to get a good deal on a half board hotel in the main village that time of year. There are lots of red runs on the Ischgl side but on the Samnaun side of the ski area there are lots of forgiving blue runs. There's a lovely un-pisted area under the cable car on the right of the piste map which will keep you happy for 2 half days I'd expect (it doesn't open all the time but if you get fresh powder it is really superb).
Samnaun (same area as Ischgl), If you like the sound of the Ischgl skiing but want a quieter alternative of where to stay then Samnaun may be an option. Very quiet pretty village on the Ischgl ski area. As mentioned this is on the blue run side. You can ski down to Samnaun but less confident skiers may want to take the cable car down.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 25-04-24 11:56; edited 1 time in total
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@PionerDS, Not surprisingly, (my pad is there) I would also go for Tignes for the same reasons as above. I would also add that gondola access to the higher slopes gives you some insurance against a high early season snow line.
I can also recommend @SNOWBOARDER, as a great instructor.
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Another vote for Tignes.
Mid-Dec. is very early season for most resorts - but a week or two after many SHs have decended on Le Lac for the PSB.
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Wow, lots of great inputs guys. Tks. Sound like Tignes is a serious contender.
As I said, many options to consider so guess I should to trim down to fewer options... a few questions though to have a clearer picture:
@Mjit, @chocksaway and @Layne
Regarding Tignes and Paradiski (Les Arcs), I always assumed most french resorts would lack the 'pre-christmas' village vibe. Am I wrong to assume that? Thing is kid will usually take the 2-3 hour class and then try to look for something else to do in the village as private lessons are more demanding, so we have no problem coping with that. Group lessons would be ideal for her to meet other kids as well, but I'm considering private lessons at this point because I'm not sure about availability of children group lessons for her age early in the season, plus it gives me planning flexibility to eventually arrive on a diferent day other than Sat. Should certainly consider Pascal (@SNOWBOARDER)
@geoffers you mentioned intermediate, but given the child friendly hotels I believe the beginners areas are plenty as well, right? I thought the altitude in Saalbach would be an issue mid-december (by mid-dec I'm talking about 13/14 onwards), should I worry about it?
@Henwc for some reason Ischgl was no longer on my radar as may have read here somewhere that wasn't the best suit for beginners and progression. Out of the 3 (Lech/Oberlech, Hoch/Obergurgl or Ischgl) which one would you say is the more child friendly?
Of course any other resort suggestion is always much appreciated!
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@PionerDS, I haven't been to Lech/Oberlech or Hoch/Obergurgl so can't comment directly, however I have generally been advised on here that Lech is a bit more child and beginner friendly.
To enjoy Ischgl you'd all really need to be able to cope with blue runs happily so might be a bit of a stretch if your child is more of a green run skier.
Tignes is a safer bet in terms of beginner skiing but Ischgl is a proper town and has a lot of excellent half board hotels which may be offering good deals at low season.
If Val d’Isère is open for your trip you can access the same blue/green runs as Tignes and it does have a more village like feel for that pre Christmas atmosphere. Although Val is lower so you'd run more risk of missing out on snow at village level.
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| PionerDS wrote: |
...
@geoffers you mentioned intermediate, but given the child friendly hotels I believe the beginners areas are plenty as well, right? I thought the altitude in Saalbach would be an issue mid-december (by mid-dec I'm talking about 13/14 onwards), should I worry about it?
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By intermediate I meant to indicate that the terrain was not seriously challenging, so there's plenty of good skiing for beginner level skiers.
Height isn't everything for the Austrian resorts - being that much further East in the Alps they do tend to get colder temperatures, so as long as it's cold enough to make snow the conditions will be fine.
In fact it can almost be advantageous that early when there's not so much natural snow, as it keeps the.crowds away so the resort is much quieter, though the pistes are 100% complete.
The last two years we've been out from 10th /11th December and had excellent snow with some pretty cold temperatures. However a few weeks later in the season things did get a lot warmer, so we were lucky to get such good conditions when we did.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| PionerDS wrote: |
| Regarding Tignes and Paradiski (Les Arcs), I always assumed most french resorts would lack the 'pre-christmas' village vibe. Am I wrong to assume that? |
In short, no you are not wrong.
Though you might want to clarify what exactly you mean by that, what you are looking for?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@PionerDS,
That early in the season I'd recommend (in order):-
Tignes-Val d'Isere; Zermatt-Cervinia-Valtournench; Paradiski; 3 Valleys
What sort of accommodation are you considering - hotel, self-catering apartment, chalet, chalet-hotel?
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You know it makes sense.
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Tks a lot guys! I clearly have no clue where to go so far, so really appreciate the shared knowledge!
Certainly regarding snow the village and the ski area are very different things, but I guess that's the risk I'm trying to minimize/mitigate here, increasing my chances of village/resort level snow.
You see, the thing is that when we go skiing is usually a very long trip for us. As I mentioned, ~11h flight - to Austria make it over 12h - plus connections, so at this stage of planning I'm trying to go with something that would (al)most certainly offer village level snow. Ski in/out would be splendid, especially when you have kids because depending on how far you are from transfers/school meeting points, it wears off the child before the fun even start.
@Layne asked what I meant by pre-christmas vibe, and I was thinking about the typical decoration, maybe a christmas market, an ice rink and not the bland eletro-lounge-music that plays every other day during the winter season.
So from what I could gather so far:
- Tignes (seems to be the most suggested)
- Val Thorens (from the 3 Valles suggestions)
- Austria? (still trying to figure out the best family friendly option here, I honestly liked Oberlech a lot from what I saw - although a bit more on the pricey side of things)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Kenzie wrote: |
@PionerDS,
That early in the season I'd recommend (in order):-
Tignes-Val d'Isere; Zermatt-Cervinia-Valtournench; Paradiski; 3 Valleys
What sort of accommodation are you considering - hotel, self-catering apartment, chalet, chalet-hotel? |
@Kenzie I'm considering everything really, it's all a matter of price vs location (close to lift) and infrastructure (if Hotel, for examepl, would be great to have activities for the child). Since we fly-in, we don't have the luxury of going by car and bring things with us (except for helmets and gogles), so that's why infrastructure is important. Ideally a nice 4/5* hotel or self-catered chalet.
Btw, so many nice hotels are still closed for booking on their websites. When should they open?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@PionerDS, Not sure where your info about Ischgl comes from. It is generally ideal for early season (though storms can be an issue but that's true for any high altitude spot). The beginners area is high (basically everyone takes a gondola to mid mountain and the skiing mostly is above that point, the home runs are not worth bothering with unless you are a fairly competent skier) and there is a wide variety of pistes, no greens that's a France only thing. I dont like the "village", though lots do, there are plenty of apres bars which will be of no interest. Catered chalets are uncommon outside of France and a few other places. Ischgl is mostly half board Hotels, most of which will be "child friendly".
If you have the budget then Lech is probably the best option. Not quite as "snow sure" as Ischgl early season simply because Ischgl is higher (Lech generally gets more snow over the season). It is one of the original winter "hideaways" and is a beautiful spot. Far less brash and more "old money" than Ischgl. If the weather is stormy there is more shelter. Oberlech is lovely but expensive, many of the hotels there have a system where they give priority to "Stammgäste" ie regulars and only open booking to new customers when those folk have had their chance to confirm first.
Without wanting to knock the skiing in France, Lech is far more of an attractive spot than the high altitude French stations. Somewhere like Tignes will have a wider variety of pistes but not have the atmosphere of Lech.
I suspect the Dolomites would be ideal later in the season but natural snow could well be in short supply. There is very comprehensive snow making but not quite the same as a decent covering of the real stuff. Also not so easy to access from major international airports (Munich, Zürich, Milan)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The usual suspects ie Tignes/VT etc can be pretty grim that time of the year with down days due to high winds and low viz.
I'd recommend Saalbach. The French purpose built resorts look rancid on the landscape. If your looking for a hotel, The Austrians know hospitality well
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| PionerDS wrote: |
for some reason Ischgl was no longer on my radar as may have read here somewhere that wasn't the best suit for beginners and progression. Out of the 3 (Lech/Oberlech, Hoch/Obergurgl or Ischgl) which one would you say is the more child friendly?
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I usually have my first ski vacation of the year early December in Tignes Le Lac at the PSB/PiPAU. It is a snow sure destination but extremely technical and not a winter wonderland.
Don't know about Saas Fe, might be a good suggestion.
Regarding Austria, I have been to Obergurgl and to Ischgl mid December and to Lech in January.
Ischgl has been correctly described here as more technical and adult oriented.
Obergurgl is the highest Austrian village, I believe. Small and snow surrounded, with an ice rink and family orientated. Twice a week we had a modest Christmas market and once a week an extraordinary demonstration of the local ski schools with pyrotechnics and huge wow factors. To get there you might need snow chains being that high and with a tortuous road in the last part.
Plenty of half board hotels catering for children.
It is on the same pass (free skibus) with Solden which has wide blue pistes and this is where my 2 children learned to ski.
Lech has the aspect of a Swiss chocolate box photo, it is in the valley at a lower altitude thus easy driving.
Very easy blue pistes just above the resort and a snowsleigh piste which might be open already if enough snow.
But Lech is way more expensive IMO.
We found a cheaper hotel a bit on the outskirts of Lech with excellent emphasis on kids. But it is more fun to be in the middle of everything next to the slopes, the chairlift and the small kids easy pistes on the other side
I do not know about Christmas Markets in Lech, you should ask in the Arlberg forum.
Can you make it a 9 to 10 days trip? We did that a few times, spending 2 nights in Innsbruck by the old city where the Christmas markets are held. It is magic and the narrow lanes have statues taken from children stories.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 30-04-24 8:47; edited 1 time in total
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I'd suggest you can forget a pre-Christmas village vibe in any high French resort. But if likelihood of snow to play in right outside your door and high likelihood of great conditions on the pistes is a higher priority you won't beat Tignes. Meribel not nearly as good from that point of view. Snow cannons only work if it's cold.
With beginner kids the convenience of getting to and from pistes and snow to play in without adult supervision (ie very nearby) trumps other considerations in my view.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Austria and Switzerland usually suggested here for pretty pre Christmas vibe, and as you are apparently near-beginners I would prioritize that rather than an amazing resort with all the technical challenges and miles of piste which you won’t see. See if you can stay in a pretty place in a quite small resort, with possible access to a larger/higher one by the end of your stay in case you want to branch out.
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I know I'm pushing Saalbach, but it does seem to meet all your criteria 
Snow in the town (100% artificial cover possible), with the beginner's area a short walk from hotels at the foot of the lift system
Lots of alpine charm with loads of lovely restaurants on the mountain
Salzburg is pretty close for their traditional Christmas markets
One benefit of a lower level resort is pistes are amongst trees for better visibility, since the higher level resorts will be above the tree line and can be pretty bleak in poor visibility.
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| Origen wrote: |
I'd suggest you can forget a pre-Christmas village vibe in any high French resort. But if likelihood of snow to play in right outside your door and high likelihood of great conditions on the pistes is a higher priority you won't beat Tignes. Meribel not nearly as good from that point of view. Snow cannons only work if it's cold.
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Don't want to nitpick but just to clarify what I said since I think I am the one who mentioned Meribel  . If ski in/out is the key criteria, then Val Thorens and/or Tignes can't be beaten for sure. They were literally built from scratch for that: a ski in/out experience, at all costs (I believe it's a French exception by the way). But put simply, they are "resorts". Not mountain village (no one in their right mind would live up there pre-ski era). It has drawbacks, as others have pointed: at this kind of altitude, the weather can be brutal, and there's not a single tree to "hide". But snow there is!
Meribel (Village) that I was quoting is a different beast (or maybe take St Martin de Belleville as a more striking example in the same area). These were mountain villages, that happened to be in a great skiing environment. They were not invented to ski in/out. Many/most Swiss and Austrian ski towns are the same. In practice it means you indeed (early or late in the season) need to take a gondola in the morning and the afternoon instead of skiing from your door. But some of these places give you access to the exact same pistes as say Val Thorens. So "high likelihood of great conditions on the pistes" ends up being the same. They are simply one gondola away. On the flip side you get a village vibe, and if there IS good snow condition (like last December!) then you are also able to do great tree skiing if the weather is bad.
Bottom line: it's always a compromise. There's no way around it frankly! But I just wanted to flag the existence of those more traditional villages that are a bit lower, but are connected to high altitude and big ski areas. Just my personal taste obviously but I think they are a great compromise.
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| PionerDS wrote: |
| @Layne asked what I meant by pre-christmas vibe, and I was thinking about the typical decoration, maybe a christmas market, an ice rink and not the bland eletro-lounge-music that plays every other day during the winter season. |
Personally I would forget about this. IME most stations will have some decs, but won't have a market/rink. Being in the mountains at that time of the year brings the ambience enough for us/me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PionerDS wrote: |
So from what I could gather so far:
- Tignes (seems to be the most suggested)
- Val Thorens (from the 3 Valles suggestions)
- Austria? (still trying to figure out the best family friendly option here, I honestly liked Oberlech a lot from what I saw - although a bit more on the pricey side of things) |
Personally I wouldn't got to Tignes or Val T at Christmas. Days are short and the weather can be iffy. And these high altitude and can be very bleak. I would rather be somewhere lower down and in the trees - La Tania, Les Coches, Oz-en-Oisan for example. Just IMO as someone who has been going at Christmas for many years.
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@PionerDS, you include Alta Badia on your possibles list.
Corvara/Colfosco would meet most of your needs I think. Maybe not so good on non-skiing activities.
The snowmaking infrastructure in that part of the Dolomites usually makes for very good piste skiing early season. The scenery and food is special too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@PionerDS,
Have a look at child specialist tour operators. I'm sure there are others, but skifamille.co.uk, markwarner.co.uk, familyski.co.uk
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@PionerDS, I think your considering Cervinia is a good shout, lots of lovely long blues and as likely to get good snow conditions there as in the other high altitude places you're considering.
I love Saas Fee but wouldn't recommend for your wife and daughter, as mentioned above not much to progress to beyond the lower (well 1800m!) blues that are easy going.
Cervinia isn't picture post card pretty but is quite pleasant and has lots of very nice Italian child friendly restaurants and quite a nice feel to it. Honestly don't know on whether or not it has a Christmas market though. It is high though with the village at 2000m so as others have said it could be cold and bleak.
There are a few hotels with pool, spa and wellness but can't personally recommend any as were too pricey for me 
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| PeakyB wrote: |
@PionerDS, you include Alta Badia on your possibles list.
Corvara/Colfosco would meet most of your needs I think. Maybe not so good on non-skiing activities.
The snowmaking infrastructure in that part of the Dolomites usually makes for very good piste skiing early season. The scenery and food is special too. |
I was really considering Corvara/Colfosco and comparing to Lech for example prices seemed much more reasonable, but I remember reading in another post that before christmas snow is more risky and ski group lessons for kids are more uncertaing given demand. Should I revisit keep Corvara on my research? Any hotel recommendation?
Tks!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Layne wrote: |
| I would rather be somewhere lower down and in the trees - La Tania, Les Coches, Oz-en-Oisan for example. Just IMO as someone who has been going at Christmas for many years. |
Really appreciate your input! Which one would you recommend as the best choice or at least with access to the best conditions giving the time (mid-december) and group (lack of) skill? La Coches?
Btw, by mid-december I mean we're planning on arriving on the weekend of 13-15/dec, leaving just before Christmas on the weekend of 19-20/dec, so it is quite literally mid-month.
Tks a lot!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@PionerDS, Maria Alm. I think it certainly satisfies as a family ski area but no idea how much skiing is likely to be open. I have read of the resort as a family destination without ever considering a visit. A better idea of range of skiing might be available if you ask of the local experts on the Ski Amade thread. The reason I suggest it is based on deal prices.....15th Dec arrival (and the 15th might offer cheaper flights -Munich?- than the 14th) on Snowtrex website there is an all inclusive hotel room for three for about £1900 all inclusive board and including a lift pass each. A half board hotel on Sunweb comes in at around 2300 for half board and lift pass. I would certainly be tempted at that price, but worth checking I haven't pressed any buttons incorrectly!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| PionerDS wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| I would rather be somewhere lower down and in the trees - La Tania, Les Coches, Oz-en-Oisan for example. Just IMO as someone who has been going at Christmas for many years. |
Really appreciate your input! Which one would you recommend as the best choice or at least with access to the best conditions giving the time (mid-december) and group (lack of) skill? La Coches?
Btw, by mid-december I mean we're planning on arriving on the weekend of 13-15/dec, leaving just before Christmas on the weekend of 19-20/dec, so it is quite literally mid-month.
Tks a lot! |
They are all good options. All have some good pistes to ski in the trees if the weather closes in and access to higher altitude skiing if it's clear and to get the better snow conditions. Plenty of skiing for all abilities.
My only reservation is the catered options - I am sure there are some but France has less options in this regard and it's not what I use.
One thing I would say is they are family/child friendly in terms of ease of access to ski school/lifts/sledging slopes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@PionerDS, Lech will be more expensive than pretty much anywhere else. The Dolomites are one of the drier part of the alps, winter weather tends towards cold & sunny, hence why snow making works so well. You are choosing to go skiing outside of the main season when snow conditions are going to be unreliable and when a good deal of the facilities like ski schools are not fully open. You wont find the perfect spot, you need to compromise. Either head high for more reliable snow but understand that there is a risk of poor weather and there could well be a lack of "atmosphere". Or prioritise a winter holiday where you might get some skiing in if you are lucky but if little or no snow you would still have a good time. If "Christmas" atmosphere is important then Austria or Südtirol (Dolomites) are probably your best bet but snow is a risk in many places. You could look to stay somewhere within easy reach of Innsbruck or Salzburg so you can visit the markets there (Innsbruck a good deal less "touristy") but that limits your choice of ski resort to places where a day trip is possible. For instance St Anton is a very easy train ride to Innsbruck but doesn't really match your other specifications or Seefeld might be perfect but the chances of snow are not particularly high.
I think if it was me I would not come all that way for a pre Christmas ski holiday!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Of the places close to Innsbruck the Stubai glacier will have a very high chance of good snow and it does have some forgiving blue runs, I seem to remember that it makes a show of being family focussed. The downside is that the weather isn't guaranteed and you could end up with it closing for a storm or very bleak conditions. Its between 60 and 90 mins from Innsbruck depending on where you start in the city. There is a 4* hotel at the bottom of the Stubai Glacier next to the lift but you'd be taking a bit of a risk with the weather if you stayed there.
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