 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi. First time posting, under rubbish circumstances, I'm afraid.
First day of our much-anticipated week in Peisey-Vallandry yesterday, and I fell awkwardly. Heard a distinct popping sound in my left knee and couldn't put any weight on it. Despite my embarrassment, my instructor called the piste rescue (what a fabulous service that is!) and I ended up in front of a very pleasant French doctor who diagnosed a ruptured ACL, probably her 1000th of the winter. I am trussed up in an impressive looking knee brace and advised to keep my leg elevated until I can get an MRI, but basically I am just scrolling the Internet panicking myself while my husband and teens enjoy the next 5 days. (Which I want them to, of course  )
So I wondered if some of you other members of the ACL club could reassure me. I can weight-bear, just. Will this improve soon??? I am putting ice on it too and taking Naproxen for the swelling. But I live very rurally and am worried that I won't be able to drive, so any positive stories welcome
One other question I have that one of you might have experience of is, I have private medical insurance through work. Is it likely to cover an injury from skiing? Seems like exactly the kind of thing they would exclude. Unfortunately I can't access my account details to find out.
One bit of cheeriness to come out of it, is that my holiday insurers are going to organise some kind of transport through Gatwick for me so I might get to avoid the queues. Although I will probably have to queue for that instead. Thanks for bothering to read this far. Off to do some more doom-scrolling....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@h3h5, welcome to snowHeads and sorry to hear about the unfortunate injury.
You should get assistance at both airports and you may need extra seats on the plane to elevate your leg, make sure your insurers do that too, and that your transport to the airport is suitable for you.
My hubby's private insurance through work would have covered such an injury, but not all policies are the same. It should also have physiotherapy cover, and many travel policies also have some limited cover for physiotherapy.
As for driving, although possibly not recommended, a friend in the same situation had some temporary hand controls fitted to her car.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@h3h5, welcome to SHs, bug,ger, how extremely annoying. I did mine on Jan 18 last year, so you have my full sympathy.
It's not all doom and gloom, there's load of experience on here about 100% recovery with and without reconstruction.
Re driving, I was recommended not to for the first couple of weeks and we live pretty centrally so only on long drives did my wife tend to take over (although it was my right knee, we have an auto, which obvs makes life a bit easier).
I was walking +/- normally after about a week. And on the static bike. And doing sagittal exercises like squats and lunges.
Being in France, I had intensive physio, once, twice a week, for pre-hab leading up to reconstruction on March 28. (The prehab is very important for post-op results). My physio, 3 days after the op, as I bounced into the clinic asked, "bug! why did they cancel the surgery?" me showing no symptoms of said surgery.
I then had physio +/- weekly and gym 3-4 times a week until an isokinetic strength test Dec 4 when the surgeon signed off for skiing (and anything else) and I stopped physio.
I've probably been on skis 50 days this season so far. Confidence took longer to recover than the skiing 
If you can ignore the banter, there's a thread here, and many other threads on here if you search ACL in thread title https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=163018&highlight=acl
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi Hells Bells. Good to hear that it's possible that my medical insurers might say yes. And I believe my travel insurance are looking into additional seats on the plane.
I've never even heard of temporary hand controls before so that's a fab tip, thanks!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Under A New Name, wow what a positive tale you tell. Very good to hear that you were moving so well so soon. That gives me a bit of a boost, thank you 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@h3h5, sorry to heat that!
I can't help with the transport side - but I ruptured my ACL at the start of December. It was at the start of a ski trip, but I didn't realise exactly what I'd done, and carried on - travel insurance weren't involved. I did have some struggles continuing to ski, which made sense later when I got an MRI 
My work health insurance (AXA) has been fab - no quibbles about how it happened etc, just that it has, and let's get it sorted. Surgery is now booked, 6 months post-op physio is included, and some sessions in advance too (and the MRI etc).
There are some admin hoops to jump through, but everything was organised pretty quickly. In my case the op is long after the injury at my request - I opted to push for a rehab led approach first to see how much it would help, and then decided to go for surgery (which also let me do some other pre-booked ski holidays too  I skied in early Feb, and am going again in a couple of weeks! But with restrctions of course - no mogul runs, no offpiste, biiiig brace, and shorter days etc. Rehab really has been very good up to a point). But I had no damage other than the ACL being gone, little pain, and general stability was back around a month after the injury (I was straight into rehab after the trip though) - and the AXA process has been great at giving me that control over my options.
My top tips would be:
- Lots of rest, ice and elevation (knee above heart, not just 'up'!) now while still out there if there's swelling. And use the brace you've been given.
- Contact your health insurance ASAP to start the ball rolling, get initial assessment booked in - do you have colleague contact details who could look up the helpline number for you? The helpline should be able to retrieve your membership number etc for you while away.
- Start physio/rehab ASAP! Get yourself into the hands of experts as soon as you can, to check and help you improve movement.
- when discussing with people at health insurance, you may need to push for an MRI. I was warned by the physio I saw, and a friend who's a phone physio for another major insurer. Likely you will have an initial phone consult (hopefully even while still in resort if you can get things moving!) then a referral to a physio in person - who will then recommend an MRI, but there might be another call after that to actually approve it. At that stage they *might* say that it isn't always needed, rehab only is fine, MRI won't itself heal anything etc. But if you're clear you want one, they should approve and schedule it.
Good luck with everything!! And I hope you can at least enjoy some relaxation on the rest of your holiday.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 1-04-24 10:45; edited 1 time in total
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@fixx I can't quite imagine how you skied on after your injury, I couldn't even stand! Thanks for the tips. I will do as you suggest and try and get the ball rolling with Aviva. I am particularly keen to get physio going as I know from a shoulder op a few years ago just how important this is. Thank you - great to hear your story.
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@h3h5, I didn't ski until the next day, and had a brace and painkillers - but it was still difficult! And a big decrease in skiing ability. In hindsight, I'm not sure how I did either Just very lucky everything else was still intact, and muscles could compensate a bit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@h3h5, sorry to hear that. Have you got crutches ? I found it very useful in the first few days to use crutches when moving around, in as close as possible to a normal walking motion, as taking as much weight through the crutches as necessary. For the first few days I had pretty much day on day improvement on how much weight I could take
From what I remember (it was 24 years ago), I was decently mobile on crutches for the first few days, then able to walk OK without them, with a hinged brace. My main mode of transport is a push bike, and I'm pretty sure I was OK on a bike within maybe a week of the injury, so I'd expect driving shouldn't be too difficult
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@h3h5, sorry to hear of your injuries. Hope that you get home OK.
I also ended up with complete ACL (and bad MCL) ruptures on the first day of my hols a few years back - on both legs though! It's a shock, your first major injury abroad.
My travel insurers were great, got me a replacement flight home with an extra seat and business class legroom  ) and wheelchair through UK airport (don't underestimate the annoyances of trying to get your luggage carried by other members of your party!). Private health insurance paid for physio, as did the travel insurance to a degree. You might also have an absolute payout in your insurance for accident too, so check every policy.
Contact your GP asap (i.e. tomorrow or message now) and see if you can get an urgent hospital assessment (don't hold your breath, though) or else see if there is a MIU or UCU (or not busy A&E) which can assess you once back and refer you to a specialist department. (Or, if you have private health insurance, consider using that.)
Also, book now to see an NHS or, preferably, specialist private physio as soon as you get back. Probably the most helpful person at the moment. Hopefully your work insurance will help with the latter.
Get the knee assessed and hopefully x-rayed and mri'd to see what damage you've actually done. (Reading your post, not sure if you can get that done whilst in France?) Then, and in the meantime, start on rehab exercises; strength is the key to knee issues. If nothing else, start tapping and clenching the quads, as they switch off with knee injuries; other quad and hamstring exercises are great, depending on what you can manage. Don't do things like leg raises though. Static or actual cycling is meant to be good.A physio will advise better than I.
Oh, and personally I was warned off the ice and anti-inflammatory creams and tablets: but that isn't qualified medical advice, just most people's current thinking on injury management.
It will take a while to settle, and you will at this point have to wait until assessing your future options. I had huge swelling and stiffness issues, took me many, many months to get back to even basic normal, though I could weight bear (in fact walked off the mountain when it happened!). Having said that. I was determined to carry on hill walking and the like, so I did, after about a month, gently and with physio approval.
But I think that I was unusual: or, at least, on the bad experience side of things. Many seem to recover much more quickly, and you may find that if it's a partial ACL rupture only, and without significant MCL, LCL or meniscus or bone injury you might be OK; even that it might partially reattach.
Driving is not advised until you have no significant pain in using the knee and there is no major stiffness or other problems: basically, wait until you are safe to drive.
I never had surgery and am coping fine, including skiing and boarding, racquet sports & dancing, albeit with some tired lower leg muscles (but that's also age and other things too). Others have gone the surgery route. These things are all very personal and individual. Again, a decision for the future and to be made in consultation with a specialist.
All the best, enjoy your enforced rest as best you can  
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| viv wrote: |
@h3h5, sorry to hear that. Have you got crutches ? I found it very useful in the first few days to use crutches when moving around, in as close as possible to a normal walking motion, as taking as much weight through the crutches as necessary. For the first few days I had pretty much day on day improvement on how much weight I could take
From what I remember (it was 24 years ago), I was decently mobile on crutches for the first few days, then able to walk OK without them, with a hinged brace. My main mode of transport is a push bike, and I'm pretty sure I was OK on a bike within maybe a week of the injury, so I'd expect driving shouldn't be too difficult |
I don't have crutches, I was offered them but turned them down in favour of my ski poles / willing family members. The flat we are in is minute so i couldn't use crutches here anyway. I am doing my best to walk normally for the few steps I take but it's a challenge. I hope I see improvement as speedy as yours, it would be fantastic to feel secure on my feet, if nothing else!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@h3h5, I'm strongly in favour of crutches, so if you can still get them, I would. Compared to ski poles, they let you put take much more weight, and are more stable on most surfaces. They also serve warning to others, and an added bonus is you have some available if you need in future (or you could be generous and donate them to the NHS when you've finished with them)
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Hi welcome to snowheads, I ruptured my ACl and mcl, in January. I had a brace, I was recommended surgery, but when I got home the Orthopaedic surgeon said I would be better with just rehab , as surgery at my age would perhaps have a long recovery and then I would have to do rehab. So I just went the rehab route, . My insurance wouldn't cover my expenses in kitzbuhel, but that was due to our not reading our travel insurance properly. ( €1800 out of pocket) my health insurance dropped physio once I turned 55 ( I hadn't noticed it) . However the good news is I am doing physio, and am doing very well, I am walking straight , have almost full straightening on my leg, and have full flex. Pain is seldom, except when going up stairs I sometimes get a bit of pain but that is due to the meniscus being damaged. So whatever you do, make sure to do your exercises, the first week or two after the injury is mostly about rest, as there is a lot of swelling and not much can be done till the swelling goes down. I am doing as I said very well, and expect to be well able to ski when the next season opens. I pity you stuck in the resort without being able to ski, it's torture in itself.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Grizzler, you're right, it is a shock. I can't quite believe I won't wake up from it all.
I will definitely get moving with the MRI/assessment and physio side of things. Without advice from you guys I wouldn't have thought about starting this until I got home, so thank you. I'm also pleased to see you were able to continue hill walking, as I had assumed that would be out of the question. (It was the second thing I thought after my ruined ski holiday thought!)
The fact that your injury took a long time to settle is more what I expected to experience. I am finding as I get older that everything takes longer and, much as I want to believe that I will bounce back, I suspect that it will not be quite so simple. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@h3h5, I think the one take away is that everyone’s experience is different. (But that it doesn’t need to be all doom and gloom).
If you go down the recon route, you need to be pre-habbing at least as hard as if you go down the rehab route …
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| viv wrote: |
| @h3h5, I'm strongly in favour of crutches, so if you can still get them, I would. Compared to ski poles, they let you put take much more weight, and are more stable on most surfaces. They also serve warning to others, and an added bonus is you have some available if you need in future (or you could be generous and donate them to the NHS when you've finished with them) |
The NHS won't take them, not least because they aren't the ones with collars for the arms
Also strongly recommend crutches. The OP won't get ski poles through security at the airport - not to mention spikes on shiny slippery tiles
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks everyone. I feel so much better for reading your replies. It's really reassuring to hear that you're skiing again, even those of you who chose not to have surgery. I'm not, and never will be a great skier, but I love it, and I want to carry on doing it. And @geoffers, that link is really excellent.
Of course I now have a to-do list... get some crutches, call my medical insurance/doctor, start the pre-hab exercises... Let's face it, I've got plenty of time to do it all in!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
@h3h5, I think the one take away is that everyone’s experience is different. (But that it doesn’t need to be all doom and gloom).
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Definitely second that. Did mine almost exacty 2 years ago, falling off a boulder wall. Could barely walk and got helped back to my car, which I then drove from Hounslow back to Guildford. The nurse practitioner who saw me in A&E was seriously unimpressed that I'd done that! I'm late 50's, fairly active (hill walking, indoor climbing, Ceroc dancing, skiing, bit of dinghy sailing), didn't have it reconstructed, and I barely think about it now.
For me, the hardest decision was whether to have it reconstructed or not, because the choice was left to me, and obviously, not being an expert, you don't really know what's best!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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And I also meant to add that I really do feel for you, it's horrible being on a ski holiday and not being able to ski, and also, a snapped ACL is quite a lot to get your head around - I know that I was not a happy bunny for a while!
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My dog ran into me, knocking me over, and rupturing my acl. We had a ski holiday booked, and l was cleared to travel. I was the person who arrived in resort on crutches.  I was not alone by the end of the holiday though. My sympathies
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Ps. It was fixed privately as the NHS said that l was too old (60) and ten years on l am still skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| h3h5 wrote: |
So I wondered if some of you other members of the ACL club could reassure me. I can weight-bear, just. Will this improve soon??? I am putting ice on it too and taking Naproxen for the swelling. But I live very rurally and am worried that I won't be able to drive, so any positive stories welcome
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Unfortunately, having a MCL sprain currently (far less severe than ruptured ACL), recovery takes time  (French Dr said at least 1 month before skiing/sport other than rehab; I suspect with how it feels now (2 weeks) that 1 month isn't unreasonable for me (yes, I could probably do some now (against physio advice), but suspect it would 1. hurt, 2. have serious risk of ending up with far worse injury given 1...)
I have driven on injury; Hire car was a LOT nicer than my own due to cruise control. Fortunately I live on the edge of london, so can generally avoid driving because injury is definately a distraction.
WRT work health insurance, I have bupa through work. They have approved physio and will have paid for a complete physio cycle before I can even get seen by the NHS. Your employer is subsidizing insurance because they want you back fit to work; they don't care how you were injured, just that you recover so you can earn them money, hence they want to avoid insurance with too many restrictions. Also insurers in UK at least do understand the basic concept that physio now is a lot cheaper than dealing with long term issues that they can't prove are directly related to injury.
Only problem you could have is while physio with bupa is direct access/self referral, other services aren't. Plausibly if you need reconstruction that might require GP referral.
From family member (dr who did second degree in sports science, so some competency) advice is try to start physio/treatment ASAP and follow the experts instructions. At worse a competent physio will tell you it is too soon for rehab and come back in X weeks (and even then can probably give advice on stuff you can do to try and avoid muscle loss elsewhere)...
On other discussions - take crutches; In addition to them being superior to ski poles on a lot of surfaces, it is amazing how treatment in various places changes if you have a visible injury (i.e. are hobbling about on crutches rather than a cane/ski pole/knee brace under clothing)...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@qwerty360, "how treatment in various places changes if you have a visible injury"
Oh, yes, this. I would take my crutches even when I didn't need them if I knew I was going somewhere busy. Of course, by that stage I'd forgotten which leg I was supposed to be supporting
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I got told off by my physio when i turned up to an appointment without my crutches. I thought I didn't need them anymore, he said I should be using them until my gait without them was normal, and as I walked in he could see it wasn't. Otherwise you risk developing poor movement habits, and other issues caused by compensating with other parts of your body.
I had to go to London one day, and it was amazing how differently people treated me on the tube because I had crutches.
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@h3h5 my experience: I tore mine completely 2 Jan 2019. Given brace and crutches by Austrian clinic, told not to weight it. 4 days later got home, went to A&E, told to weight it and gently start using it again (not excessively). That felt scary, the first time I weighted it again! But ok. Continued using crutches for about another 4-6 weeks, mostly only 1 but 2 when in busy places as signal to others.
Surgeon and physios recommended rehab route. I followed physio programme diligently (and still do). Was back playing in the hills again by late May 2019 (relatively gentle hill walks); big days trekking in Pyrenees that July; and skiing in the Dec (inc offpiste).
Rarely notice any problems with my knee - this includes spending a lot of time in the mountains (ski mountaineering, offpiste skiing, climbing, fell running etc almost every weekend). No regrets about taking the rehab route.
As physio told me - the reconstruction op was only developed relatively recently. Before then, loads of sportspeople (including elite level folk) would have successful careers without an ACL. Some may not even have known they didn’t have an ACL.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Inboard, ?? "The first ACL repair was performed in 1895 by Mayo-Robson of Leeds and was followed by Grekow and Hey Groves who initiated ACL reconstruction with autologous tissue between 1914 and 1920, almost as we know it today."
I suppose that's geologically recently 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Update: I have taken all your advice and now have crutches which enabled me to brave the walk to a bar last evening and they did make me feel a lot more secure. I have also attempted to make contact with my medical insurers to request an assessment as soon as i get home although no certainty about cover as yet.
Thanks to those of you continuing to share your stories, I am hugely reassured by them (although it still stinks being in the mountains and not being able to hike or ski in them).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hey!
So lots of skiing in Japan in January and then did the triad in early march on a green on a work trip. Impressive!
Walked from day one although pretty swollen but have now had the MRI. Ruptured ACL, grade 2 MCL and some Meniscus issues. Obviously everyone is different but have done without crutches and walking ok. Fine up the steps but one at a time down. Didn’t have a brace for the first two weeks but now wearing most of the time. I’m reasonably fit and a 45 year old male.
Surgeon has said let the MCL heal up to end of April then will make a call on the ACL. He is a skier and his preference is to avoid the op if possible as knee seems stable.
Interestingly my first ortho (before referral) thinks I might have done the ACL a few years back and have been skiing hard in recent years.
I’m open to surgery or just go on with physio. We will see as long as I’m back for Japan next year.
Currently in Italy with the family and have loved seeing my kids (four and six) ski for their first hol. My daughter is a ripper! Skied for an hour today just pootling about as really want to get on the skis with the kids on the last day tomorrow. All fine but super slow and signed off by my surgeon as long as I take it easy.
Great snow this week so took all my will power not to dive into the powder. Will report back after last day! Have also eaten a load of cheese and lots of red wine so will roll back into the UK.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have reported my knee injuries on here many times but will try to summarise for h3h5.
First partial tear of R acl aged about 30 (I am now 75) when playing with small children. Other injuries partially tearing ligaments and hamstring on R knee, some while skiing others not, over the next few years. Never completely ruptured anything but told by consultant to get a 4 point brace for skiing as if I did any more damage I would not walk! Eventually completely ruptured R acl aged 55 and had private reconstruction at Easter-time and was skiing again by December that year. Told to continue wearing the CTi brace for skiing as I ski bumps (and used to judge world cup bump skiing). Tibial plateau fracture aged about 60, just a crack near site of acl repair. That only needed 3 weeks non-weight bearing. Then 2 meniscal tears, not skiing, which were tidied up surgically just before I was 70.
Last Easter someone skied into me and I tore my L (good knee) acl and 2 meniscal tears. Its only a partial acl tear and meniscus is not causing problems so I just have a Donjoy brace for that knee. This is week 9 of skiing 3 valleys this winter wearing both braces. I can carve and ski bumps wearing the 2 braces but without them both knees have too much movement.
I am wearing both braces as I type this as I have been out skiing this morning but visibility is poor so popped back to the appartment for lunch and will be out again later.
I am well known at our local hospital and they are happy to keep me in shape for skiing as long as possible - consultant is a keen skier. I always do all the physio after each injury. Contrary to some advice here I carry inbuprofen and arnica pills with me while skiing. I take 2 of each when needed and that seems to prevent swelling and bruising but I fall very rarely.
Good luck with rehab h3h5, keep skiing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| mogulski wrote: |
I have reported my knee injuries on here many times but will try to summarise for h3h5.
First partial tear of R acl aged about 30 (I am now 75) when playing with small children. Other injuries partially tearing ligaments and hamstring on R knee, some while skiing others not, over the next few years. Never completely ruptured anything but told by consultant to get a 4 point brace for skiing as if I did any more damage I would not walk! Eventually completely ruptured R acl aged 55 and had private reconstruction at Easter-time and was skiing again by December that year. Told to continue wearing the CTi brace for skiing as I ski bumps (and used to judge world cup bump skiing). Tibial plateau fracture aged about 60, just a crack near site of acl repair. That only needed 3 weeks non-weight bearing. Then 2 meniscal tears, not skiing, which were tidied up surgically just before I was 70.
Last Easter someone skied into me and I tore my L (good knee) acl and 2 meniscal tears. Its only a partial acl tear and meniscus is not causing problems so I just have a Donjoy brace for that knee. This is week 9 of skiing 3 valleys this winter wearing both braces. I can carve and ski bumps wearing the 2 braces but without them both knees have too much movement.
I am wearing both braces as I type this as I have been out skiing this morning but visibility is poor so popped back to the appartment for lunch and will be out again later.
I am well known at our local hospital and they are happy to keep me in shape for skiing as long as possible - consultant is a keen skier. I always do all the physio after each injury. Contrary to some advice here I carry inbuprofen and arnica pills with me while skiing. I take 2 of each when needed and that seems to prevent swelling and bruising but I fall very rarely.
Good luck with rehab h3h5, keep skiing. |
wow...respect...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@turms2,
+1. Bionic person!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm almost up there with @mogulski, in terms of knee/leg injuries (triple spiral fracture), broken one knee, ripped quad knee cartilage and both ACL's, one was very obvious and then later on whilst having my third lot of keyhole discovered at some point I had torn my other, so that very much proves that there are various grades of ACL injury, some requiring surgery and others not.
This was a blog from way back in 2011 which featured both my pre-hab and re-hab.
Every now and again (I ski all the season) my knee plays up and I resort to a small lightweight hinged knee brace while also having ibuprofen for breakfast etc
Earlier this year I was talked into testing a Mojo by Martin the owner as I'd commented that I did not think a Mojo was as good as a knee brace, and I was put right on that one, and here is the Mojo review of my review
And it's good to know that the Mojo is out there for when the knees really do say no more!
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FAQ
