 Poster: A snowHead
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I have been skiing since I was a kid (50 yrs old now). I ski typically 1-2 times a year. I have never taken lessons, but can ski pretty everything I choose to.
At no point in time have I ever been able to control my ski tips. It doesn’t matter what brand of ski, what boot or bindings, every ski setup I rent has the same exact problem.
My ski tips just do their own thing. I have absolutely no control over them. Essentially I can get no pressure to them no matter how hard I try.
Maybe my technique, but I suspect it has more to do with biomechanics.
I have seen heel lift, toe lift and binding angle as possibly issue.
Please help. Go….
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Take lessons.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Unless you have some really weird biomechanical issues, your problem is almost certainly technique. As others have said, get some lessons to find out what’s happening and fix it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes, take lessons, but if you've been doing whatever you're doing for nearly half a century it might be hard to change...... One instructor I used (and greatly respect though she takes no prisoners) had a little group of us doing exercises where we just lifted up the back of each ski in turn. She also had us lifting the back of BOTH skis simultaneously which is bloody hard work! Starting whilst we were standing still, but then whilst traversing across a gentle slope etc If the back of the ski is in the air, then the weight's on the front. It's the laws of physics, not biomechanics. It's very simple but makes you acutely aware of where the weight is - not just fore and aft but left and right (uphill and downhill or vice versa).
Another thing which gets you more conscious of where the weight is is side slipping. If the weight is evenly distributed fore and aft you can go straight down (weight on bottom ski). But you can do a controlled "falling leaf" side slip by shifting the weight front and back. A very useful thing to be able to do especially if you find yourself in difficulties with nowhere nice to turn!
You could try that without a lesson!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes, the weight is too far back. It's always "the weight is too far back". (As many instructors of my ken will say when asked in a bar to sort out someone's ski problem).
Most likely will need to work on the basic stance - I'd probably take you all the way back to snowplough, get the stance right there, then work through the various phases of the BASI Central Theme back to full parallel turns - three hours on a 1 to 1 private lessons should be enough, then you'll just have to keep practising this 'new' way of skiing until it becomes natural to you.
Much will seem strange to you at first, but I promise that it will be worthwhile, particularly if you're getting to the age where the body starts to protest a little more and recovery time starts to get longer and longer.
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@Smcdonald2421,
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I have never taken lessons
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There's your problem right there.
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can ski pretty everything I choose to
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No.
No, you can't.
End.
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| under a new name wrote: |
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I can ski pretty everything I choose to
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Choice is everything. Ask me how I know 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| God's gift to skiing wrote: |
@Smcdonald2421,
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I have never taken lessons
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There's your problem right there.
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can ski pretty everything I choose to
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No.
No, you can't.
End. |
Usual friendly welcome then
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@motyl, titter
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Whitegoldsbrother, well it's a pretty obvious question, no?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Yes, the weight is too far back. It's always "the weight is too far back". (As many instructors of my ken will say when asked in a bar to sort out someone's ski problem). |
As I only had 1hr to ski today, I thought i'd use the CARV units and work on some of their training drills. Went for the balance drill, as this was quite low on my scores.
Unlike almost every single person you'd see or teach, my feedback was weight is too far forward! Interesting, and accurate, as I know this is something I need to improve, i'm trying to get the feeling of the heel more through the second half of the turn. Goes to show it's a pretty accurate tool.
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You know it makes sense.
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I've come up from a Texas town
On the pistes I look like a clown
The instructors shout when I come down
Donald, where's yer shovels!
If the snow is bad, if the snow is good
My skis don't go where they should
The instructors shout it is understood
Donald, where's yer shovels!
An instructor got me to move my hips
But I was always doing the splits
I just couldn't control my sticks
Donald, where's yer shovels!
My skis go left, my skis go right
I can't get the tips to bite
My skiing is a bit of a fright
Donald, where's yer shovels!
[okay that's enough of that claptrap- Admin]
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@davidof, 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@davidof, Excellent.
My contribution for a final verse:
I asked for help one Winter's night
But the advice I got was utter shyte
It didn't help my Tips to bite
Donald, where's yer shovels!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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not very kind though, @Whitegoldsbrother, is right.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| swskier wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Yes, the weight is too far back. It's always "the weight is too far back". (As many instructors of my ken will say when asked in a bar to sort out someone's ski problem). |
Unlike almost every single person you'd see or teach, my feedback was weight is too far forward! |
Oh yes, it does happen. I recall my wife had to work on this way back when she did her Ski Club reps course. Phil Smith recommended she change her skis to help compensate, put her on the 1st gen Salomon 1080 twintips, as I recall.
The point is though, that such skiers rarely have the sorts of problems that they're aware of but don't understand, like ski tip control, flapping skis on the flat, over-rotation, shin or calf bruising, thigh muscle aches etc. etc. These form the vast majority of "Oh, you're an instructor, can you tell me what am I doing wrong?" questions to which, therefore, the aforementioned answer usually applies.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
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can ski pretty everything I choose to
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No.
No, you can't.
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Course he can, as long as he doesn't choose to ski anything he can't do;-)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Chaletbeauroc, I'm going to stick my neck out.
I do not think you can self teach skiing.
That said, I do know of a former (RIP) ESF director who did teach himself to ski, but his style was somewhat, err, agricole.
And when asked by a chum and I how we improved our bumps lines, he replied, "A nice lunch?"
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Chaletbeauroc, I'm going to stick my neck out.
I do not think you can self teach skiing |
Radical idea. Who'd 'a thunk it?
| under a new name wrote: |
That said, I do know of a former (RIP) ESF director who did teach himself to ski, but his style was somewhat, err, agricole.
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It's still not so long since I thought that about a huge proportion of ESF instructors. Many of them seemed to be firmly stuck in the 1980s, skis locked together, arms in the air, bum sticking out and all. I think they've retired most of the old guard now, don't see it anything like so often.
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| pam w wrote: |
| not very kind though, @Whitegoldsbrother, is right. |
You are quite right and I hope Donald gets his jittery tips sorted soon. Maybe a case for Rax Skis?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@davidof, love it!
I have an analogy I sometimes gove when Im teaching someone who skis on their heels - it's like trying to drive a front wheel drive car when you've got 10 bags of cement in the boot weighing the back down. No grip and dodgy steering!
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I'd give my eye teeth to be able to ski like an ESF instructor from the 1980s. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Yes, the weight is too far back. It's always "the weight is too far back". (As many instructors of my ken will say when asked in a bar to sort out someone's ski problem). |
Unlike almost every single person you'd see or teach, my feedback was weight is too far forward! |
Oh yes, it does happen. I recall my wife had to work on this way back when she did her Ski Club reps course. Phil Smith recommended she change her skis to help compensate, put her on the 1st gen Salomon 1080 twintips, as I recall.
The point is though, that such skiers rarely have the sorts of problems that they're aware of but don't understand, like ski tip control, flapping skis on the flat, over-rotation, shin or calf bruising, thigh muscle aches etc. etc. These form the vast majority of "Oh, you're an instructor, can you tell me what am I doing wrong?" questions to which, therefore, the aforementioned answer usually applies. |
Of course the big issue is that knowing weight is too far back doesn't mean you know how to fix it. Several possible causes/fixes for weight too far back; Fixing them means finding someone who can advise you correctly on YOUR cause and the correct way to fix it. Yes, there are plenty of drills I could point you at, but the hard part is finding the drill that will help YOU.
And this is why the fix for the OP is almost certainly spend some time skiing with a good instructor.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| qwerty360 wrote: |
Of course the big issue is that knowing weight is too far back doesn't mean you know how to fix it. Several possible causes/fixes for weight too far back; Fixing them means finding someone who can advise you correctly on YOUR cause and the correct way to fix it. Yes, there are plenty of drills I could point you at, but the hard part is finding the drill that will help YOU.
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Quite so.
I used to suffer from this myself, back in the day, until one such exercise with a group showed up that I was the only one unable to do it correctly. I won't go through the exercise, but the outcome was that I 'discovered' the muscle in my shin that one can use to lift one's foot, or conversely to bring one's knee forward. I had been skiing without ever tensing that muscle, always trying to push my weight forward from the upper body, rather than pulling it forward in the boot. Which of course didn't work and lead to sore shins and bruised calves. Was quite a revelation, and needed that I relearn everything I thought I could do up until that point.
I do know of one or two other people that it's helped when I suggested it, but as you say it's just one of several possible causes. It's one that I look out for when teaching though, as no instructor I had been with at the time was able to point it out in me, it was just luck that the (well-chosen, so not really luck alone) exercise helped me and allowed me to work out why I was unable to do it.
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Maybr a slight diversion, but I had a lesson just before Christmas and my instructor was surprised by how much improvement I made during it ajd how quickly I was implementing what he asked me to. This has NOT been my experience in the past. He was asking about what sports I do, I said just gym now (had to give up hockey when I wrecked my reconstructed ACL a good number of years back). I realised after, I have been doing Pilates for a few years now. This has been improving my movements, helping me use those muscles that get lazy and have been building them up. I am by no means perfect! However what I can do now vs when I started is quite a huge improvement now I consider it. This better body fine musclular control, I firmly believe, is the difference in doing the small changes needed in stance, movements etc.
For reference I am 48 now so similar age to OP.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| qwerty360 wrote: |
Of course the big issue is that knowing weight is too far back doesn't mean you know how to fix it. Several possible causes/fixes for weight too far back; Fixing them means finding someone who can advise you correctly on YOUR cause and the correct way to fix it. Yes, there are plenty of drills I could point you at, but the hard part is finding the drill that will help YOU.
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Quite so.
I used to suffer from this myself, back in the day, until one such exercise with a group showed up that I was the only one unable to do it correctly. I won't go through the exercise, but the outcome was that I 'discovered' the muscle in my shin that one can use to lift one's foot, or conversely to bring one's knee forward. I had been skiing without ever tensing that muscle, always trying to push my weight forward from the upper body, rather than pulling it forward in the boot. Which of course didn't work and lead to sore shins and bruised calves. Was quite a revelation, and needed that I relearn everything I thought I could do up until that point.
I do know of one or two other people that it's helped when I suggested it, but as you say it's just one of several possible causes. It's one that I look out for when teaching though, as no instructor I had been with at the time was able to point it out in me, it was just luck that the (well-chosen, so not really luck alone) exercise helped me and allowed me to work out why I was unable to do it. |
Very interesting. I had bruised calves and shins from the last trip and I know I’m trying to get my weight forward from my top half and it’s not really working. Would love to know the exercise where you discovered the shin muscle. I am aiming to have a couple of private lessons in March to see if I can improve my posture and turns.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@melbouch, I don’t know if this is an actual exercise or not because I just came up with it by myself a couple of weeks ago but I’ve tried to activate those muscles at home just standing on the staircase, heels on the edge of a stair looking down. Let your toes and balls of the feet drop down a bit and then lift the feet as one unit, not the toes separately but the whole instep&toes. For me it seems to activate the muscles needed for dorsiflexion. Started with 3x10 reps, now at 3x15, gonna bump it to 3x20 in a couple of weeks. Might need a piece of yoga mat or something soft under your heels depending on how hard are your stairs & sensitive heels you have.
Add to that some stretching of the calves and ankles. Just normal calf stretches and an exercise where you stand facing a wall with one foot about 5 inches away from a wall & then press your knee to the wall without the heel lifting. Do the legs separately, you may add a bit of body weight on it but listen to your body. How far away you have to be to touch the wall with your knee depends, I was at about 4” away with my left foot when starting, now it’s almost five. Ditto for right, it was about 4 1/2 now at 5 1/4.
OFC you do all this without your shoes or slippers on.
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Poster: A snowHead
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A few people have genuinely tried to help the OP, but it does not seem to have been taken well.
The simply truth is that as @under a new name, says, no way can he "ski anything" from that description. In fact no way can he ski ANYTHING with proper control based on what he posted. So lessons, and probably lots of them, are needed. But I can see that that advice is not going to be taken....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well if this has been going on for 40 odd years then you really have to get someone to look at what you are doing. It is possible to be self taught and become very good, but from the sounds of it this has not worked for you. I visualise you trying to get weight into the tips by folding at the waist and sticking your bum out - not good and that will give you all the trouble you are having. You need to learn to sink your centre of gravity down into a well centred, slightly forward stance using flex at ankles at knees, not by folding in your middle. You're probably also skidding all your turns and not engaging the edges of the skis with the snow. That's just for a start...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I get the vibe OP is no longer with us.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yup. Did not get told that this is a common problem for good skiers and there is an easy DIY fix. Instead was given good advice to get some instruction. Disengaged at that point.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Ravensburger wrote: |
@melbouch, I don’t know if this is an actual exercise or not because I just came up with it by myself a couple of weeks ago but I’ve tried to activate those muscles at home just standing on the staircase, heels on the edge of a stair looking down. Let your toes and balls of the feet drop down a bit and then lift the feet as one unit, not the toes separately but the whole instep&toes. For me it seems to activate the muscles needed for dorsiflexion. Started with 3x10 reps, now at 3x15, gonna bump it to 3x20 in a couple of weeks. Might need a piece of yoga mat or something soft under your heels depending on how hard are your stairs & sensitive heels you have.
Add to that some stretching of the calves and ankles. Just normal calf stretches and an exercise where you stand facing a wall with one foot about 5 inches away from a wall & then press your knee to the wall without the heel lifting. Do the legs separately, you may add a bit of body weight on it but listen to your body. How far away you have to be to touch the wall with your knee depends, I was at about 4” away with my left foot when starting, now it’s almost five. Ditto for right, it was about 4 1/2 now at 5 1/4.
OFC you do all this without your shoes or slippers on. |
Oh for stairs, I’m in a ground floor flat  however I think what you’re doing is similar to an exercise Knees Over Toes Guy does to activate shin muscles to prevent shin splints. It also helps dorsiflexion and mine is rubbish. He also advocates walking backwards too. Thank you for the tip!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@melbouch, doesn’t need to be a stair, anything that lifts your heels up an inc or two from the ground without tipping over when you’re standing on the edge suffices. Like a couple of big hardcover books you don’t have to pamper?
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@Ravensburger, I have enough Jamie Oliver’s to make it work!
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FAQ
