 Poster: A snowHead
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When I was looking for private lessons for my OH I always find ESF instructors quite a lot cheaper than other ski schools. Why is that? Obviously some may prefer having a British instructors but we have used ESF in the past and found them quite good. Obviously it depends on who you have as instructor so it's a bit of hit or miss but that happens with other ski schools too. So is there any systemic reasons why they are so much cheaper?
(Just curious)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They are not cheaper than, for example, a French ESI in the same resort. The British ski schools are particularly expensive - and of course only exist in a handful of resorts. I always used the ESI in Les Saisies because I got to know a couple of instructors well. There weren't any British instructors! I used BASS groups for kids in earlier years, sometimes, and found them good value because the groups were much smaller. I have also done courses with British instructors myself, and found them excellent. Depends what you want. If you want detailed technical instruction with accurate feedback you will probably do better with a native speaking Brit. When I've had lessons in France the instructor has generally reverted to French when they discover I can speak a bit, but the language skills necessary to really analyse movement, and take on detailed feedback mean that native-language instruction is valuable.
But if someone was coming out to Les Saisies and need a charming guy to build their confidence, take them to the right pistes, give them some useful tips - the local instructors were absolutely fine. Also really good for my very athletic son in law, already a good skier and a PE teacher, who wanted someone to take him to the exactly right bit of off piste for his experience - something he'd have been too sensible to set off on his own to do.
I did only once have a private lesson with an ESF instructor and, to be nonest, it was hopeless. His English was excellent but he was a crap teacher. I wanted a go at some easy off piste and he chose something far beyond my skills (the unpisted "half pipe" track of a drag run which was not in use) and then proceeded to show me how terribly good he was at dropping into it then flicking round at the top and dropping into it again. Fils de pute!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@euanovsky, is that for the same times? I have noticed that the big ski schools, esf etc in resorts tend to only let me book privarw over lunchtime, so I am driven to using those smaller ones anyway. Not sure that is the situation all season, or if it is just in the peak school holiday a weeks I am stuck with
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ESF and other French ski school instructors will all be busy in the peak school holiday weeks (even group lessons will be booked up well in advance) but are more flexible about timing at other times.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| @euanovsky, is that for the same times? I have noticed that the big ski schools, esf etc in resorts tend to only let me book privarw over lunchtime, so I am driven to using those smaller ones anyway. Not sure that is the situation all season, or if it is just in the peak school holiday a weeks I am stuck with |
Yea same time, e.g. they are both 3 hours say. I think ESF let you book private for longer than 2 hours in either morning or afternoon but guess that depends on the resort you are in.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ESF and other French ski school instructors will all be busy in the peak school holiday weeks (even group lessons will be booked up well in advance) but are more flexible about timing at other times. |
Yes but found those smaller schools do allow some private bookings. Whereas ESF just blanket not take them out. Have to get in early and know I am paying a premium but c'est la vie. I am paying hugely more than the ESF lunchtime slot but that doesnt work well for family and I am not comparing like for like due to the unsociable timings with respect to family. Although did do one with SMT in Mayrhofen but I was just with youngest and could call on her aunt and grand parents to have her with them after her morning lesson to let me trot off and have a private session
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The ESF have lots of trainees which are on about half the hourly rate compared to the the instructors with the full diploma. They charge the same to the client no matter how qualified / experienced the instructor is so this subsidises the whole business. In an independent ski school with lots of British instructors they are all fully diploma qualified and on the same hourly rate.
Here in Meribel the ESF are not massively different on price for private lessons from Parallel Lines that I work for. Depends on the duration and time of day but prices are generally within 10% either way. They offer cheaper group lessons but they do this by having bigger group sizes which are generally not as productive.
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Our local ESF didn't allow private peak-time bookings but the instructors could still take such bookings directly, and opt out of working the ESF rota at those times. i.e. if you knew the instructor, you could still book those slots as long as you gave plenty of notice (up to 2 years sometimes).
In opting out of busy slots, the instructors missed out on "points" and so moved down the rankings, which meant more time in Piou Piou and less time taking the competition class out/less likely to be offered new private clients. This meant it was a finely balanced decision for the instructor, that went far beyond the pure financial elements.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A physio I saw locally today said a friend who had done a lot in France, and had contacts with French instructors and mountain guides, said some were feeling disgruntled at having to work so hard this winter, having been rather cushioned by the State during Covid.
I have no idea how true this is - just passing it on!!
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| pam w wrote: |
A physio I saw locally today said a friend who had done a lot in France, and had contacts with French instructors and mountain guides, said some were feeling disgruntled at having to work so hard this winter, having been rather cushioned by the State during Covid.
I have no idea how true this is - just passing it on!! |
Sounds like a lot of brits who got used to furlough payments during covid!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| euanovsky wrote: |
When I was looking for private lessons for my OH I always find ESF instructors quite a lot cheaper than other ski schools. Why is that? Obviously some may prefer having a British instructors but we have used ESF in the past and found them quite good. Obviously it depends on who you have as instructor so it's a bit of hit or miss but that happens with other ski schools too. So is there any systemic reasons why they are so much cheaper?
(Just curious) |
There are a few factors at play. Economies of scale of having dozens / hundreds of instructors on the books versus only a few and overheads to pay. There is also class size etc (in group lessons) subsidising private lessons to an extent and as was also mentioned some schools have LOTS of trainees on their books that they can pay a lot less but still charge the client the same price... this means bigger margins. Also some organisations having a profit structure that is different... the ESF partly rely on a pyramid structure so rely on LOTS of people signing up for their (especially) group lessons so the profit can trickle through to those who have been in the school for the longest.... their is a saying within French instructors that when / if you leave the ESF you can never come back as your places in the pyramid is lost.
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