 Poster: A snowHead
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@tatmanstours, @drporat, I was in Obertauern on Monday (as its just down the road) and it was pretty much the same as every other time I've been there. Picturesque it ain't. Very weather dependent as there's no tree skiing, mostly late season British School groups fighting the slush. That said, on a clear day after a good dump there is some amazing skiing to be had. I'd still opt for Ski Amade or Saalbach for a holiday though.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 15-04-24 8:54; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@tatmanstours, I was in Obertauern 2 week ago, i wouldn't go back for other than a day visit on a powder day, However the hotel, mountain huttes and apes were as expected in Austria. Good service, tasty home cooked food, good atmosphere and fair and reasonable prices. Everything France lacks in my experience
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Baron von chippy, “ apes were as expected in Austria”
In such a high resort, are you sure those apes weren’t yeti?
And don’t mention the war - you touched on it with that last remark, but might have got away with it 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@tatmanstours, You not seen an Austrian Ape yet?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| drporat wrote: |
| my personal impression is that for large groups/chalet parties or for total ski in/ski out seekers France makes more sense while Austria feels better for couples/singles/2 to 3 friends happy to ski all day, party at an apres ski and return to the village for a good VFM local dinner. |
This is my observation also, having experienced both France and Austria in a large group.
But also for the vast majority comparing a ski holiday in France vs Austria is like comparing Brie and Camembert. For most they are practically indistinguishable, but you'll find staunch supporters of either* and you can find versions of either best suited to your own personal tastes.
We had a great time in Austria this winter, but for next winter the place we were able to build a holiday with the particular attributes and economics we want (ski in/out for convenience with younger kids, our own space to enjoy the evening without a bar bill, catered so we don't have the chore of cooking for a large group) happened to be in France so we're going back to France.
*I'm sure there are keyboards already clacking with anger at the sheer stupidity of me saying two such different cheeses are the same!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Flet©h wrote: |
But also for the vast majority comparing a ski holiday in France vs Austria is like comparing Brie and Camembert. For most they are practically indistinguishable
*I'm sure there are keyboards already clacking with anger at the sheer stupidity of me saying two such different cheeses are the same! |
You obviously have no respect for French culture!
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“…comparing a ski holiday in France vs Austria is like comparing Brie and Camembert.”
Personally I think it’s like comparing Camembert and Bergkäse 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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not quite sure what that means. Maybe we should all endure reading something less "tedious" ie sailing or les saisies
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
not quite sure what that means
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Tilting at windmills is what that picture is about - which is making mighty efforts to defeat an imaginary "enemy". It seemed to me to fit the bill. Nobody is arguing that "France is better than Austria" so why do you perceive the need to constantly argue the converse? If you were doing it merely to annoy, that would be trolling. But I prefer the image of Don Quixote, who felt threatened by what he thought were giants so was brave (if foolish) going into battle.
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@Origen, would appear only one person being argumentative. Like you, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Your not shy at voicing yours, so why shouldn't anyone else?
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You know it makes sense.
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
@Origen, I don’t know what I’ve said to cause such an emotional and acerbic reaction. Perhaps we’re at cross purposes.
I have no wish to divert this thread and engage with you in turning it into one of those perennial, tedious A v F debates.
But, just so that you and others know where I’m coming from with my previous comments, there are many inescapable and obvious differences between the two countries, many of which may be explained by the fact that traditionally the French skiing industry has been driven by the domestic market (geared towards the less than 15% of the French population that skis, but makes up 75% of visitors to its ski resorts). Whereas the Austrian skiing market has been driven primarily by international tourism (35% of Austrians ski, and 62% of their country is covered by the Alps, but only 33% of visitors to Austrian ski resorts are from the home country).
The difference in skiing culture, as well as the relative importance of winter tourism to the national and local economies is obvious. The differences are many and pronounced, and are not confined to the contrast between functional, urbanised, purpose-built, French ski stations with their “compact” “résidences de tourisme”, and the typical Austrian former farming village with family-run hotels, or the differences in investment, attitudes, customer service, and price/value for money.
For the record I have spent just about as many of my 40 odd skiing years skiing in France as in Austria, and I used to organise annual chalet parties, usually three per season, to many of the well-known French resorts. I have discovered many such resorts that I liked, and have invariably returned to them more than once.
But I have also witnessed the massive investment in the Austrian ski industry (over EUR 6 billion invested over the decade ending 2020, with 50% of revenues frequently reinvested. Austria now has the most updated lift infrastructure of any country, and it has
overhauled France as the country hosting the greatest number of international skier visits. And that is despite France having more ski resorts, higher mountains, and at least twice as many domestic skiers.
Now, if you want to pursue a debate, or have your own theories to expound, I respectfully suggest that you find or start an appropriate thread, in which I shall be happy to join you. |
Really interesting post, thank you. I nearly missed it, since I generally don't ski at Christmas. Did go to Lech at Christmas once, it was lovely but, as others have said, eye-wateringly expensive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As it's a christmas post, does anyone have experience in how busy christmas week is vs the week after (new years)?
We've done NY a few times in France and it was never too bad but it has got so expensive this year, so considering week before.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
@Origen, I don’t know what I’ve said to cause such an emotional and acerbic reaction. Perhaps we’re at cross purposes.
I have no wish to divert this thread and engage with you in turning it into one of those perennial, tedious A v F debates.
But, just so that you and others know where I’m coming from with my previous comments, there are many inescapable and obvious differences between the two countries, many of which may be explained by the fact that traditionally the French skiing industry has been driven by the domestic market (geared towards the less than 15% of the French population that skis, but makes up 75% of visitors to its ski resorts). Whereas the Austrian skiing market has been driven primarily by international tourism (35% of Austrians ski, and 62% of their country is covered by the Alps, but only 33% of visitors to Austrian ski resorts are from the home country).
The difference in skiing culture, as well as the relative importance of winter tourism to the national and local economies is obvious. The differences are many and pronounced, and are not confined to the contrast between functional, urbanised, purpose-built, French ski stations with their “compact” “résidences de tourisme”, and the typical Austrian former farming village with family-run hotels, or the differences in investment, attitudes, customer service, and price/value for money.
For the record I have spent just about as many of my 40 odd skiing years skiing in France as in Austria, and I used to organise annual chalet parties, usually three per season, to many of the well-known French resorts. I have discovered many such resorts that I liked, and have invariably returned to them more than once.
But I have also witnessed the massive investment in the Austrian ski industry (over EUR 6 billion invested over the decade ending 2020, with 50% of revenues frequently reinvested. Austria now has the most updated lift infrastructure of any country, and it has
overhauled France as the country hosting the greatest number of international skier visits. And that is despite France having more ski resorts, higher mountains, and at least twice as many domestic skiers.
Now, if you want to pursue a debate, or have your own theories to expound, I respectfully suggest that you find or start an appropriate thread, in which I shall be happy to join you. |
Great post - succinct and reflects my own experiences
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@damanpunk, this is an extract from page 1, which might help answer your question.
| tatmanstours wrote: |
“ My experience has been that Christmas week is relatively low-key, as many people like to spend Christmas with their families at home, before arriving en masse for the New Year week. If I’m right, the hordes will arrive on 27th/28th December.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thank you, much appreciated!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Flet©h wrote: |
| ....But also for the vast majority comparing a ski holiday in France vs Austria is like comparing Brie and Camembert. For most they are practically indistinguishable, but you'll find staunch supporters of either* and you can find versions of either best suited to your own personal tastes...] |
Good point.
Never done Austria at all, and have only done one ski trip with the family and have never been anywhere skiing at Christmas, so it's all new, a black canvas of sorts.
Ultimately, snow is snow (in a sense) and the main decider - for me anyway - will be based around getting the type of accommodation that catches our eye, in a location that makes life easy(ish) and at a price that isn't ridiculous. Mega-mileage, the gnarliest runs, amazing apes are all things we don't need so that probably opens up options.If it's Austria, then cool; if it ends up being France then it is what it is.
I will add, dissenting voices have appeared in Chez Specialman, once I mentioned driving to Austria, so maybe the winter tyre 'obstacle' won't be an issue if we fly. I may be asking for info on the best train-served resorts 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Specialman, If train served then St Anton, international trains stop in the centre of the village, 5 minutes walk to the main lift. Innsbruck easy too (including sleepers).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Specialman wrote: |
| Do we do the Sunweb/Snowtrex route of included lift passes, or will full DIY, sort-everything yield a better result? |
Just in regard of this.
There is no wrong answer here.
Sunweb/Snowtrex are large European based online specialist travel/tour operators? Effectively they do the same job as local agencies, probably even have partnerships with local agencies or tourist information offices. It works in pretty much the same way. They are just portals/websites into the deals. On the ground you will often be getting the keys from the same place, lift passes will have been issued by the same lift pass office and just collected from an agency. Or maybe posted.
(France focused) when I've compared deals between Sunweb/Snowtrex and local agency I have not found it financially beneficial and have preferred to do with someone local and on the ground rather than through a middle man. My mate told me when he went to Valmeiner one time low season the price from Sumweb was a real bargain and unbeatable - and he is almost certainly correct. Also I don't seem to have read on here on bad customer service stories (unlike for example Crystal).
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| Specialman wrote: |
| Flet©h wrote: |
| ....But also for the vast majority comparing a ski holiday in France vs Austria is like comparing Brie and Camembert. For most they are practically indistinguishable, but you'll find staunch supporters of either* and you can find versions of either best suited to your own personal tastes...] |
Good point.
Never done Austria at all, and have only done one ski trip with the family and have never been anywhere skiing at Christmas, so it's all new, a black canvas of sorts.
Ultimately, snow is snow (in a sense) and the main decider - for me anyway - will be based around getting the type of accommodation that catches our eye, in a location that makes life easy(ish) and at a price that isn't ridiculous. Mega-mileage, the gnarliest runs, amazing apes are all things we don't need so that probably opens up options.If it's Austria, then cool; if it ends up being France then it is what it is.
I will add, dissenting voices have appeared in Chez Specialman, once I mentioned driving to Austria, so maybe the winter tyre 'obstacle' won't be an issue if we fly. I may be asking for info on the best train-served resorts |
Driving to Austria is very easy, I've done it loads of time, though I do see you are up in Yorkshire and I'm down in S.London so you do have a few more hours drive on the UK side, but once on the other side of the channel the trip down through Belgium, Germany and finally Austria is no problem at all. The drive though Germany is especially fun since there are still lots of stretches of autobahn remaining with no speed limits, just be aware that the places that do have speed restrictions are usually enforced quite strictly.
Try to avoid the never-ending roadworks on the A8 at Pforzeim though if you are heading to Western Austria - there is frequently long traffic jams there, it's a road construction project of the size you usually only see in China !
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| Belch wrote: |
| tatmanstours wrote: |
@Origen, I don’t know what I’ve said to cause such an emotional and acerbic reaction. Perhaps we’re at cross purposes.
I have no wish to divert this thread and engage with you in turning it into one of those perennial, tedious A v F debates.
But, just so that you and others know where I’m coming from with my previous comments, there are many inescapable and obvious differences between the two countries, many of which may be explained by the fact that traditionally the French skiing industry has been driven by the domestic market (geared towards the less than 15% of the French population that skis, but makes up 75% of visitors to its ski resorts). Whereas the Austrian skiing market has been driven primarily by international tourism (35% of Austrians ski, and 62% of their country is covered by the Alps, but only 33% of visitors to Austrian ski resorts are from the home country).
The difference in skiing culture, as well as the relative importance of winter tourism to the national and local economies is obvious. The differences are many and pronounced, and are not confined to the contrast between functional, urbanised, purpose-built, French ski stations with their “compact” “résidences de tourisme”, and the typical Austrian former farming village with family-run hotels, or the differences in investment, attitudes, customer service, and price/value for money.
For the record I have spent just about as many of my 40 odd skiing years skiing in France as in Austria, and I used to organise annual chalet parties, usually three per season, to many of the well-known French resorts. I have discovered many such resorts that I liked, and have invariably returned to them more than once.
But I have also witnessed the massive investment in the Austrian ski industry (over EUR 6 billion invested over the decade ending 2020, with 50% of revenues frequently reinvested. Austria now has the most updated lift infrastructure of any country, and it has
overhauled France as the country hosting the greatest number of international skier visits. And that is despite France having more ski resorts, higher mountains, and at least twice as many domestic skiers.
Now, if you want to pursue a debate, or have your own theories to expound, I respectfully suggest that you find or start an appropriate thread, in which I shall be happy to join you. |
Great post - succinct and reflects my own experiences |
Agreed, great post! And also reflects my experience for the most part. Whilst I may be slightly biased nowadays, having skied fairly extensively in France, Austria and Italy, on balance, I’d take Austria for the overall experience, Italy for the food and France for the ease of access (well, before leaving the UK  ).
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FAQ
