 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
It is never too late
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...to be slow and unfit? 
Interesting and not pleasing. I am finding my ability to return to running after heart and ACL surgery to be rather a lot slower than I would like. Although I am generally feeling stronger than I have for a few years.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I find it terribly pleasing that as an emphatically NON-elite performer, I am not experiencing a precipitate drop in form.
Just going slowly downhill - suits me fine!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Just going slowly downhill - suits me fine! |
In both senses?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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In engineering systems terminology there is a phrase graceful degradation. "Graceful degradation is the ability of a computer, machine, electronic system or network to maintain limited functionality even when a large portion of it has been destroyed or rendered inoperative. The purpose of graceful degradation is to prevent catastrophic failure."
I think that a number of us wish that we manage to achieve graceful degradation! 
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O yes. "Graceful degradation" is exactly what I'm aiming at. Dylan Thomas wrote: Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
I couldn't agree less. And Dylan Thomas didn't agree either; he drank himself to a premature death.
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| pam w wrote: |
O yes. "Graceful degradation" is exactly what I'm aiming at. Dylan Thomas wrote: Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
I couldn't agree less. And Dylan Thomas didn't agree either; he drank himself to a premature death. |
Go not gentle into the good night, or something, although he was more around midday when he keeled over. It sounds like he died from the same thing my wife is currently suffering from... not alcohol but misdiagnosed pneumonia, bronchitus and asthma.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting study, lots of talking points.
| Quote: |
The decline is a steady minute per year from your early 20s to late 60s
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Perhaps if looking at averages of the whole field. But as the study points out:
"The age of peak performance was 40.3 and 39.6 years in all women and men, respectively, when they were examined in 1-year intervals (Figure 4). The top 10 finishers by 1-year interval age group achieved their peak performance at the age of 38.4 and 42.2 years in women and men, respectively. When 5-year intervals were considered, the age group of peak performance was 40-44 years in both all women and men, but it was 40-44 years in women and 55-59 years in men when the top 10 finishers were considered."
So you certainly don't have to begin to decline at 20, 30, or maybe even 40. However, most people's free time, and perhaps motivation, to train is massively lowered once they hit early 20s and get a full time job, kids etc. which may explain the average decline more than physiology!
There is no doubt at some point you will start to decline. More injuries, longer to recover, decreased muscle mass, decreased testosterone (in men), decreased vo2 max etc. Of course many of these things can be better maintained through exercise.
Masters marathon times keep dropping while other age categories stay relatively the same (accounting for supershoes). So it's likely we haven't seen peak performance yet of older athletes. I suspect the age of decline in performance will keep going up and up. Better training, nutrition, pharmaceuticals etc. Of course at some point you can't overcome biology.
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Hitting your 60s is no fun for a man.
Yer pecker stops working, your hair's gone, and the end of skiing is right around the corner.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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2 out of 3 ain't bad, and some men can achieve that until into their 70s......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@pam w,
I'm sixty next year. My hair has gone; does that mean I'm safe with the other two?
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"Some men" I said, @zzz. I haven't tested them all.......
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Hitting your 60s is no fun for a man.
Yer pecker stops working, your hair's gone, and the end of skiing is right around the corner. |
Speak for yourself 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Getting old sucks
But it beats the alternative
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@davidof, Interesting. I am somewhat encouraged by the chess numbers, mental deterioration only transitions from the age of 80? Do you have a link?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
Getting old sucks
But it beats the alternative |
Make up your mind. In another thread on the risks a 16yr old is taking...
| abc wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Living a long time isn't everything... |
Agree 100%. |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pisteoff wrote: |
| @davidof, Interesting. I am somewhat encouraged by the chess numbers, mental deterioration only transitions from the age of 80? Do you have a link? |
there is quite a lot of data out there. Again based on observations rather then following individuals through their careers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Is this an indication of declining performance with advancing years generally, or just an indication that trying to maintain a high level of performance causes an early death?
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“Graceful degradation”, I’m having that. At nearly 67yrs I just want to keep skiing till at least 75. So I think a combo of solid technique, risk assessment and common sense might see me through as I degrade gracefully.
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Loss of fitness will be sped up if we sit on the lounge as we age. Keep moving and actively strive to retain strength and fitness. Simple.
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| adithorp wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
Getting old sucks
But it beats the alternative |
Make up your mind. In another thread on the risks a 16yr old is taking...
| abc wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Living a long time isn't everything... |
Agree 100%. |
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You think you get to choose? You’re either more arrogant than most, or ”choose” not to live your life fully without even realize it.
Some of us live as though we don’t get old. And if we do get old, we deal with how much it sucks. Still beats the alternative.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
| adithorp wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
Getting old sucks
But it beats the alternative |
Make up your mind. In another thread on the risks a 16yr old is taking...
| abc wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Living a long time isn't everything... |
Agree 100%. |
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You think you get to choose? You’re either more arrogant than most, or ”choose” not to live your life fully without even realize it..... |
Wow, that's a bit of a leap 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The study fits with my experience. I could get reasonably fit with a couple of months (or so) of exercising every day before going skiing while in my 60s, but after that it very rapidly got harder. The break was exactly as in the study for me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As a woman, my fitness fell off long before that!
Now that I’m in the “sucks” decade, I simply accept my reduced level as the “new normal” 
But I take comfort in that mental capacity can stay well into the 80’s. I’ll have a clear mind to enjoy whatever I could do with whatever physical condition my body allowed.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 27-11-23 10:09; edited 1 time in total
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| snowball wrote: |
| The study fits with my experience. I could get reasonably fit with a couple of months (or so) of exercising every day before going skiing while in my 60s, but after that it very rapidly got harder. The break was exactly as in the study for me. |
carpe diem, as they say
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You know it makes sense.
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@davidof, I prefer Carpe Jugulum
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We might not be as fit but if you go to the right resorts it's €10 for the pass for us old farts....ah well off to the gym ..6 weeks to go
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Poster: A snowHead
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| DaveD wrote: |
| We might not be as fit but if you go to the right resorts it's €10 for the pass for us old farts....ah well off to the gym ..6 weeks to go |
quite justified, it would seem
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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On the positive side, if you were slow and unfit at 20 you can also be slow and and unfit at 70 and could probably even improve a bit on your youthful self. It is never too late.
Love that, reassuring for me
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mmm, 60 is just 16 months away, most of my hair is still there & it's still ginger!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
I did a similar study on Alpine skiing on decay of performance in GS skiing to offer up an appropriate Handicap in the EuroTest.
BASI under the old regime voted against the proposal at the ISIA.. |
Quelle surprise. Always did seem more of a money-making, let's make it difficult in order to keep it exclusive, organisation to me.
I never really had any hope of getting that far, not starting on my L1 until I was fifty-something (as far as I know no-one of that age has ever passed it) but it has always felt unfair that I was effectively disqualified by age from getting to level 4. Whether an 'easier' Eurotest, or the lack of it entirely, would have inspired me to take it further I don't really know.
As for the age thing, my greatest fitness drop occurred as a result of a motorbike accident some 15 years ago, and it was clear that I'd never regain anything like my former best, which in part is what encouraged me to go down the BASI route to improve my technical skiing to compensate. The figures for x-country athletes don't really seem very relevant to a recreational downhill skier, TBH. The ability to ski long and hard all day, or all week, can be massively improved by technique rather than relying on fitness and so far it's been working well for me, so at 63 I can still outdo almost anyone I ski with in those respects, and keep up with the other instructors most of the time too. Except through the gates, but that's another issue entirely and is probably more due to lack of any serious technical training than anything else.
So, fit after 60? Definitely. Fit after 70? We'll see, but I'll be aiming for fit _enough_ to carry on doing it rather than trying to be as strong as I was at 40
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So this could be my last Hurrah... 
No wonder my lift pass is going to be free next year.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I guess that elite athletes are operating near the top of their ability all of their lives, so age is a limiting factor.
Mr average, on the other hand is nowhere near the peak of their abilities in younger years, beaten by elite athletes 70+
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If Mr average puts a bit more effort in, as they get older & have more time as kids leave home & they retire from work, they should be able to maintain that albeit lower performance they had in younger years 
At 58, my 5k is about 5 min slower than it was 30 years ago, and I know I don't have as much strength, but technique and equipment allow me to ski just as well, if not better than 30 years ago.
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the message of this thread seems to be that except in the case of top athletes who train for 100% of their potential, we could all be better than we are, if we tried harder. Which is quite a helpful message, though not one that gives us any easy excuse for not being better. It's a particularly helpful message for those of us who have never been very good - who will not regret what we've lost. It must be quite hard to have been really good. Or really beautiful......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Exoskeletons, e-legs, supersuits, roids, etc. will eventually enable skiers to last into their 100s.
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Well, my quads are still aching from the 1800m run I did on Tuesday, not very long, but almost none of it is flat with some quite steep bits up & down, the first 100m is quite steep downhill, this seems to be more punishing than uphill.
My hilly 1800m seems to be prepping my legs for skiing far better than my previous 5k flat run.
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FAQ
