 Poster: A snowHead
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Winterhighland reporting that the funicular is now closed indefinitely, this morning all funicular tickets have been removed from sale going forward.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Alastair Pink, will just be easier to post when its open. We’ll assume its closed unless otherwise advised 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 11-10-23 10:22; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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BREAKING NEWS: SUNAK IN HS2 U TURN SHOCK
Word is it's to be reinstated from Brum to Manchester - then onward to the top of Cairngorm 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So there are funicular tickets for sale from 16th October, but the website has a banner stating:
PLEASE NOTE THE CAIRNGORM MOUNTAIN RAILWAY IS TEMPORARILY OUT OF SERVICE. WINTER SEASON PASSES WILL BE LAUNCHED ONCE WE HAVE A RE-OPENING DATE. WE APOLOGISE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE.
Is it when or IF? 
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@haggishunter, I think we can all now accept that they dont give a monkeys about snowsports any more. Their real concern will be all those coffees, cakes and postcards they cant sell..........
Its a real shame, and I imagine that all the businesses that used to rely on snowsports have completely diversified away now.
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Quite a number of the businesses that used to be snowsports based in the strath haven’t diversified away, they just don’t exist anymore.
God forbid any of them tried to speak up for snowsports, HIE et al released the hounds of hell on any business that went ‘off piste’ on the messaging!
Literally people have been forced out of Strathspey for having an opinion on CML.
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^ yup, haggishunter is right on the money here.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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^ so the "rumour" (from reliable source) I have heard :
i) The funicular is still fecked even after spending £20 million repairing over last 3 years closure (see ParkWatch blog).
ii) Cairngorm will try to operate this winter but at much reduced capacity.
This is still very much <tbc>. Hence delay on putting season pass on sale.
iii) Longer term HIE are preparing case to replace the concrete beams with steel
Seemingly they will seek approval to use the court case and other funds to pay for this.
Absolute shambles.
Text book example of sunk cost fallacy.
HIE have been hell-bent on making the funciular a "success".
Even if that come it at the expense of everything else - including the ski area itself.
Imagine what £30-50 million could have done if split equitably across the 5 Scottish ski areas...
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I wonder how much revenue has been taken in by it since it opened. Anyone know the total passenger numbers/ lift pass sold?
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You know it makes sense.
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| JimboS wrote: |
| I wonder how much revenue has been taken in by it since it opened. Anyone know the total passenger numbers/ lift pass sold? |
Some fag packet maths...
Assume ~100K passengers / year.
Over 20 years that is 2 million passengers.
i.e the £50 million subisdy is equivalent to £25 per passenger carried.
Of course the funicular has been an "anti-skiing" investment.
Fixing the ciste chairs (estimated cost £250K) suddenly seems cheap in comparison to the train.
The plan was always a trainset plus cafe for tourists at the top.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The ciste chair could so easily have been upgraded to a 4 person detachable. Even if this entailed an increase in foundations and pilons I'm sure you would have change from £5 million.
Categorically agree with@Haggis_Trap, this was never under consideration.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Haggis_Trap, how much longer are the Scottish Government going to allow this expensive fiaso to continue? They should have pulled the plug on HIE at Cairngorm years ago, yet they seem happy to agree the ever growing expenditure on this misguided vanity project!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A bit like HS2
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And pull the plug on the ferrys being built on the Clyde, oops, better not do that
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Everything the UK builds now goes bellyup...
Trains, ferries, snowtrains that don't work when it snows.
Place is a disaster.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| @Haggis_Trap, how much longer are the Scottish Government going to allow this expensive fiaso to continue? They should have pulled the plug on HIE at Cairngorm years ago, yet they seem happy to agree the ever growing expenditure on this misguided vanity project! |
Fully agree.
However the Scottish government tried to vote HIE out of existence in 2017 but were blocked by opposition (Tories, Lib Dem and Lab) voting together.
As result HIE retains its own board which remains independent, and seemingly uncountable, of central government...
Vote on HIE will be taken into account, says Sturgeon
The Scottish government will reflect carefully on calls to allow Highlands and Islands Enterprise its own board, Nicola Sturgeon has said.
The government wants a new body to oversee all of Scotland's enterprise and skills agencies.
On Wednesday, MSPs voted for a motion demanding that HIE retain its own board.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-38677356
Accusations fly after HIE board vote in Holyrood
Nationalist politicians in the north have been accused of betraying their constituents after voting against protecting the board of Highlands and Islands Enterprise (HIE).
Opposition parties united against the SNP to vote against plans to replace the board with an overarching national body.
The victory at Holyrood on Wednesday was narrow, with just one deciding vote, after all of the SNP MSPs in the Highlands stuck with their party and voted against the motion by Highlands and Islands Conservative MSP Donald Cameron.
https://www.strathspey-herald.co.uk/news/accusations-fly-after-hie-board-vote-in-holyrood-145037/
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ah yes, Natural Retreats. The franchise award by ‘competitive dialogue’ aka make it up as we go along to ensure the pre-determined outcome. Maybe do some research on Natural Assets Investments Limited, HIE, Lews Castle and the Court of Session for bed time reading tonight if counting sheep doesn’t work !
HIE does not need reformed, it needs abolished. It really is nothing more than a public sector protection racket.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stevew wrote: |
| Anyway back to the travesty funicular |
Cairngorm Mountain Resort has just posted this on its Facebook page:
We've had quite a few enquiries regarding our season passes so here's a quick update. If there is sufficient snow the surface lifts will open regardless of the funicular (my italics), and season passes will be available to buy online. We are anticipating season passes to be available to purchase in the coming two weeks and certainly before the end of November.
So it looks like CMR are anticipating that the funicular may not be running any time soon.....
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From snowtrain to no train...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The funicular will not operate this season.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The train not functioning puts real pressure on the access for kids and beginners - getting smaller kids up the M1 isn't exactly a simple exercise which rules out loads of the beginner area in the Ptarmigan bowl. That's what irritates me the most about this. Yes they've done some work low down but frankly it's just for show and not really much cop even when there is snow. I feel for the staff who are trying to manage their way through an imposed shambles.
| Quote: |
| Or perhaps HIE were being dishonest when they issued their original PR statement about the reason the funicular was temporarily being taken out service after spending £20million on repairing it....... wink |
NO, you don't say !
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You do wonder where the funicular (maybe literally) goes from here. Part of the argument for repairing it was that it would supposedly cost about the same to remove it. That line isn't going to work a second time round. Does anybody know if the contractors for the repairs guaranteed their work? Although even if there is, there is usually wiggle room (and you could imagine there being legitimate reasons for the contractors to not be responsible for the current issues). Even when working it's nothing like as good as a high speed chairlift or gondola, which I would have thought would match or better the summer draw of the funicular anyway. What a waste of public money. And also, what a spectacularly ugly hill, although simply ripping the funicular out probably isn't going to fully solve that now
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rambotion wrote: |
| You do wonder where the funicular (maybe literally) goes from here. Part of the argument for repairing it was that it would supposedly cost about the same to remove it. That line isn't going to work a second time round. Does anybody know if the contractors for the repairs guaranteed their work? Although even if there is, there is usually wiggle room (and you could imagine there being legitimate reasons for the contractors to not be responsible for the current issues). Even when working it's nothing like as good as a high speed chairlift or gondola, which I would have thought would match or better the summer draw of the funicular anyway. What a waste of public money. And also, what a spectacularly ugly hill, although simply ripping the funicular out probably isn't going to fully solve that now |
The Cairngorm funicular has become beyond parody...
In total HIE have spent £50+ million trying to make the funicular a success.
Even if that came at the expense of everything else (including the ski area itself).
The Coire na Ciste chairs were vindictively removed from the hill at a time they knew the funicular had issues incoming.
The cherry on the cake has been closing for 5 years while spending £20 odd million repairing it.
Only for those repairs to fail. Though even if it had been repaired the closed system would have limited it ability to make money in the summer anyway.
This lift can never be used for repeat custom such as hikers or bikers.
Time to scrap the train and move on.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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How can such a basic tried and tested thing as a funicular railway cost the same as a CalMac ferry boat? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rambotion wrote: |
| Does anybody know if the contractors for the repairs guaranteed their work? |
On this specific point, presumably there is some responsibility for the quality of the work if the repairs were not carried out to specification. However my understanding is that COWI who carried out the structural assessments of the viaduct and lead on the design of the repairs, only allowed repair work to get underway after HIE gave legal waivers against any future liability of COWI.
There are however two distinct aspects to the repairs. Firstly there was the very significant structural and ground works to reinforce the foundations of and prop the viaduct piers, but secondly the much more 'bodge' like appearance of the strapping applied to the beams and their scarf joints with angle iron and threaded rods!
HIE have been very coy about the exact mechanism of the failure(s) that lead to the first closure. One can surmise from available info that part of the problem with the piers is that they were supporting 3 to 4x the dead weight they were designed for (the piers were not modified when the viaduct beams were changed from steel to concrete).
Given HIE's behaviour to date one has to suspect that the current situation may not have been unexpected. Basically, all that the steelwork bracing of the beams and scraf joins were at best a shot in the dark, at worst a deeply cynical short term bodge to allow a temporary reopening.
Why? Because HIE knew the funding required to repair the piers damaged by previous overloading and replace the failing concrete superstructure with the original specification steelwork would never have been forthcoming.
Now HIE can go back to Scot Gov and say the piers are now fixed and secure and will be good for decades, but we need another £16million to replace the concrete beams with steel ones.
HIE probably knew the work to date didn't give the funicular a long term future. But it (along with chopping down the Coire na Ciste Chairlifts) has been enough to give certain former senior HIE staff 7 years of retirement in peace without having to answer some shall we say awkward questions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I wonder how much of that turnover was from actual passengers on the Funicular, as opposed to revenue from car parking and tea/coffee whilst people waited in the forlorn hope that they might actually be able to use it?
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@haggishunter, where are all the fix up costs spent on the funicular going in the accounts? Not against the asset, or it would be the most over-valued funicular around, or is some other entity bearing all these?
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| ster wrote: |
| @haggishunter, where are all the fix up costs spent on the funicular going in the accounts? Not against the asset, or it would be the most over-valued funicular around, or is some other entity bearing all these? |
They don’t feature in the accounts at all, CML does not own the funicular, it’s purely an operating company.
The funicular belongs to Highlands and Islands Enterprise and thus cost of repairs won’t feature in the operators accounts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Big boy at HIE did it and run away! 
Published by CML:
| Quote: |
November 13th, 2023.
The temporary closure of the funicular railway is a frustrating situation for our customers and for the entire team at Cairngorm Mountain. Our parent company, Highlands and Islands Enterprise (HIE), their main contractor Balfour Beatty and project consultants continue to manage the current programme of snagging works. Cairngorm Mountain is responsible for the operation of the visitor site and we are doing our best to maintain operations with the other facilities that are within our control.
Due to ongoing technical difficulties coupled with the approach of the winter weather we have no definitive date yet for the railway re-opening. We have therefore made some operational changes for the winter season. This will ensure we can all enjoy the wide range of activities available at the resort as much as we can.
We are pleased to confirm that our winter season will open on Friday 22 December. The Snow Factory will be operational from the end of November, and this guarantees snow for the beginners’ zone for the opening date. If we also have some real snow by that time, the surface lifts will be operating, and the team will do its best to ensure we have snowsports for as many people as we can safely accommodate. At weekends, if there is no real snow, the tubing slides will be open for family-friendly tubing activities.
The Ptarmigan Building will remain closed until we have full snow coverage. Both the Cairngorm Café and Cas Bar will be open from the beginning of the winter season in the Day Lodge Building together with The Mountain Shop which is undergoing an exciting refurbishment. Once the season is underway our Ticket Office will be open every day in the Base Station together with ski hire in the Day Lodge as normal.
Regarding ticketing, we need to keep a check on capacity and numbers using the resort. This means that season pass numbers will be capped and priority will be given to previous season pass holders on a first come first served basis. As a gesture of goodwill our early bird pricing will remain in place all season and we will also offer a generous discount on our day passes until the funicular is back in service. We will announce the launch of season pass online applications within the next week together with our pricing structure of day passes. As always, parking will be free throughout the winter season in our refurbished main car park.
Whilst the team at Cairngorm is disappointed with this current situation, we will continue to do all we can to make Cairngorm Mountain the exciting and exhilarating destination it has always been. We aim to maximise opportunities for our winter visitors. We look forward to welcoming all our guests for another snowsports season with us. |
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This caught my eye.
Unless there is snow to carpark the there wont be a ski-season at Cairngorm this winter.
| Quote: |
| The Ptarmigan Building will remain closed until we have full snow coverage |
If only HIE had spent 500K repairing the Ciste Chairs....
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FAQ
surely someone can help - Harry Potter maybe (there must be a spell to change a funny car into a magic carpet), or mayhaps our own @admin - now there's a fine gent with exceptional organisational skills and imaginative problem solving ability. What... you say it is even beyond him. Oh woe, woe and many times woe 
