 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Looks much like mine at St Anton, though we were just off-piste, not touring, and within 200m of the piste.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for sharing. The drop-off is is a mightily impressive piece of flying.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Weathercam, hope he's recovering well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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anyone happen to know if PGHM would recognise a what3words location?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@kitenski, in English or French? I would worry my pronunciation of e.g. répéter.encadrant.nœud wouldn't be decipherable over the phone and they'd be sent to Milton Keynes instead.
Incredible work from the pilot and medics
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Why on earth did the pilot put so much at risk doing the drop off on that incline when there was a decently flat area about 100m away?
Impressive flying? YES!
Unnecessarily so.
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| rungsp wrote: |
| Why on earth did the pilot put so much at risk doing the drop off on that incline when there was a decently flat area about 100m away? Impressive flying? YES! Unnecessarily so. |
Not really, it's common to land and "hold collective" like that in snow with smaller helicopters at least. It's not risky or unusual or impressive in the sense I think you mean in those conditions. In a day's heli-boarding you might do that a dozen times, depending on the terrain. You can see that there was a plenty of clearance for the blades, no "loss of reference", no wind throwing them around, plus there was an easy way out and down.
They will have protocols about what's allowed versus the conditions etc.
In BC they're into Fentanyl lollipops not nitrous, but I'm sure either would be welcome.
How did they tell you where they were going to land? Did they evac his gear too, or did you need to carry that out?
As they said: I hope the bloke's back at it soon.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@michebiche, very good point, hadn't thought of that!
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@rungsp, maybe the vid doesn't show it, but it was considerably more than 100m to the flat area.
But the most important factor was the depth of the snow and how it was melting fast, if they walked it they could have well been going up to their thigh every three or four steps, especially carrying that gear, and that's a great way to injure yourself.
And as @phil_w, says, these guys are trained to position and hold it like that.
| phil_w wrote: |
| .....How did they tell you where they were going to land? Did they evac his gear too, or did you need to carry that out?.... |
They didn't tell us where they were going to land, but did say secure everything, and I knew from being helied off just what it would be like.
They did take all his gear, and made sure we had the car key and that he wasn't being airlifted to hospital with it in his pocket 
We were so near the end, though there was 5km of flat to pole to get to the snowbound road, and then another 5km ski down that to where I had parked the van earlier in the morning.
Normally, we ski down to the valley and then on with the skins and climb back up into the resort, so I knew the snow cover was good, but this trip was for a mate who doesn't have the lung capacity to climb anymore.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just a thought on this. When doing our CPR training for work, we've been taught to call 112 from a mobile if we are not at a physical address, as it gives your GPS location automatically to the call handler. I know that you called directly to PGHM in this instance and had to manually give them these. You were all very well organised though, so doubt it would have made a difference.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Impressive.
“and just before we left, they checked that we had our van keys in case they were with Adrian!”
lol, sounds like they’d seen that before, probably more than once!
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@Weathercam, ...thanks for this...genuinely appreciated...some interesting and important insights to store away in the 'might be needed...' part of my brain...
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You know it makes sense.
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Great video and a great read. Thanks for sharing
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Orange200 wrote: |
Impressive.
“and just before we left, they checked that we had our van keys in case they were with Adrian!”
lol, sounds like they’d seen that before, probably more than once! |
Yeah these people know their stuff. Not their first rodeo, as we say.
I found my Mom unconscious on her kitchen floor one day, and called for help. Help arrived, and walked right past Mom, which I didn't like. The guy (a fireman) went straight to the stove. He turned off the burner that she'd turned on hours earlier for tea, the water for which had long since boiled away, and which could've burned the house down. Of course I had not noticed this, my head was spinning.
We are fortunate to have people, professional people, willing to do this important work.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Scooter in Seattle, nice story.
In my brother's village, the butcher chopped (precisely) one of his fingers off. Completely. His apprentice pushed him to one side, and rummaged in the pile of chopped meat for the finger. The butcher was focussed on stemming the bleeding and was shocked to see the youngster shout 'got it!' and run off with the finger. Angry and confused the butcher worked on staunching the bleeding and when the apprentice arrived back a few minutes later was understandably upset and furious. Together they sorted the immediate threat of the bleeding and called 999. When the ambulance crew arrived - which was a while since the village is a few miles from the local A&E - the apprentice retrieved the finger from the cold store where he had wrapped it and packed it in crushed ice - without the ice touching the finger directly - exactly the right protocol for preserving it. It remained vital and was subsequently successfully reattached.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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very cool thinking. I regularly sail as crew on a 35 foot boat with a very old (92) skipper. I try to think from time to time about what would need doing if he collapsed - which would vary according to how and when he collapsed (behind the big wheel, from which I and my fellow elderly crew could NOT get him out would be the hardest, especially if he collapsed onto the starboard side, and I couldn't get to the controls for the autohelm... ). Not obsessively, but just thinking a bit, because doing the wrong thing in a panic could immediately make everything worse.
If I collapsed, which is perfectly possible, he'd sort things out! He once had a very great friend drop dead, sitting on the transom of a work boat, when they'd both been checking moorings - very heavy work. The friend fell backwards into the sea. My skipper had no possible hope of getting him back in the boat but he managed to get a rope round him and tow him gently back to the slipway. And phone the man's wife......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the article and the video, useful tips about securing kit and people against the downdraft. Easy to forget such things when you're stressed by a serious accident. My limited experience of helicopters isn't filled with happy memories, but I'm mightily relieved that when I was evacuated on a stretcher the helicopter was able to land and I was loaded inside rather than being dangled at the bottom of the winch like your mate was. That would have been super stressful for me.
| Quote: |
| In BC they're into Fentanyl lollipops not nitrous, but I'm sure either would be welcome. |
I got a morphine shot in Austria which was very welcome as I was in a lot of pain. It was the weirdest sensation.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 4-05-26 9:26; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Origen, ...I think that this 'what could go wrong' thinking is essential in activities such as sailing and skiing.
In climbing, risk assessment is just a constant...will that 'go'? what if that flake has a razor edge? is that a dependable or useless bit of anchor 'tat'.
Yesterday I decided to remove two separate jammed large limbs of trees in the wood, where we had felled 30-40m high ash trees and they had fallen into other trees (unavoidable in one case and avoidable mistake in the other) and hung up - and after removing 90% of the tree there were still very large limbs suspended in V's in the standing trees.
Loading the ladder into the trailer, my partner asked why I was not taking the chainsaws - and I said that I was not going to break my rule of not using a chainsaw up a ladder. Using a handsaw allows slow and precise cuts, the quiet (compared to the din of a chainsaw) allows you to think and watch and hear what the wood is doing. I evaluated every cut, and revised plans constantly as I found out exactly where the forces and stresses were in the jammed limbs. These were VERY big pieces of timber, definitely potential widow-makers. It was dangerous and risk-bound, and needed huge care and thought. All went well, apart from one cut, where a large segment went in an unanticipated direction - not that dangerous to me but not what I was expecting. Learning: I'd roped the big segments to constrain their direction of fall and next time I will rope the segments more.
I worry that skiing is often seen as a liberating and 'free' sport - as in 'free-skiing' and there's not enough - ah...what could go wrong here...
Conscious ongoing risk assessment is vital while touring - but even on piste I wish there was more - I was hit from behind this year by one such skier - she blamed me for turning - er...maximum a metre to left and right and you hit me from the right when I was on a LEFT TURN... - I don't think she had a sense of 'OK what could go wrong here...?' she was just blatting around without thinking....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| ...I think that this 'what could go wrong' thinking is essential in activities such as sailing and skiing. |
And Systems Engineering and business and...
I think different people have different approaches to risk. I try to think through the scenarios in advance, and cover off the risks. Some people - often senior company managers - think I'm both a massively risky and also an unaccountably lucky person. I think they need to pay more attention.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I'm both a massively risky and also an unaccountably lucky person
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Mmm. I'm driving to Scotland at the beginning of next week. Various elderly friends clearly think I'm a bit mad to do so. But I drive defensively (e.g. never close to the car in front), never get stressed or impatient in traffic and always stop every two hours to walk around for a few minutes and have a coffee. And it will be in daylight. So I've thought about the main risks and will consciously accept the risks I can't mitigate. I'm always astonished when, after an accident, people say "I never thought it would happen to me".
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@phil_w, brilliantly put...
I was interested in the open day at CERN, when children were able to play with liquid nitrogen and superconducting magnets. Dipping the magnets into a small flask with tweezers then pushing them around. Never in England, I thought, and I spoke to a friend there who said 'we think of the worst things that could go wrong, stop those from happening, then the rest just needs careful supervision....
Children as young as seven were told what to do, told what could happen if they breached those guidelines, then were watched by a supervisor. They had a ball.
Excellent.
Imagine my surprise when my then-10 year old son got on the controls of a 250-ton crane in the car park!
https://vanschie.com/en/news/new-250-ton-telecrane/
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Re the flying on display. They are seriously good pilots. A while back I was skiing with a skierslodge group down from the Gondran fort chain in Montgenevre. Someone fell and tore a hamstring. It was getting dark and we were in a wood. PGHM put the helicopter down in a clearing, guys got out, helicopter circled and landed again and off they went. Took about 2 minutes. Vid above looks like an unfortunate accident handled very well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We are v lucky to have such able people ready to come to our rescue. I always wanted, when doing RYA sailing courses long ago, to have our boat picked out for SAR helicopters to practice on us - didn't happen though.
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@Origen, I’ve had that, just off Sumburgh Head on approach to Lerwick. Helps when the SAR pilot is a friend - but they were very happy to have a yacht to practice with, rather than the more common fishing/ trawling and oil support vessels up there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Too many yachts to choose from in the Solent! Though I did my initial courses in the Firth of Clyde, where I guess there were a lot more yachts than were to be found off Sumburgh Head.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Would be interesting the "thinking logic" of decision which number to call first , inreach sos button, PGHM or 112. I guess in any country other than France, I would go for inreach sos especially if I had their rescue insurance.
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Doesn't inreach just relays information to the local rescue services?
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You know it makes sense.
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| ed48 wrote: |
| Would be interesting the "thinking logic" of decision which number to call first , inreach sos button, PGHM or 112. I guess in any country other than France, I would go for inreach sos especially if I had their rescue insurance. |
Order of who to call for me
Radio – direct contact with the local PGHM and helicopter
Call the local PGHM (if you have signal, or another national rescue service)
Call 112 (if you have signal) or use an inReach
When you press the inReach SOS button, it takes around 30 seconds to a few minutes to send the signal (if the connection is good). The alert is then sent to the Garmin Response centre in Texas. From there, they assess the situation and contact the appropriate rescue service, such as the PGHM.
The inReach is very useful when you have no phone signal. It also sends your GPS location, making it much easier for rescuers to find you. Newer models allow two-way messaging in your own language.
However, if you have phone signal or a radio and know who to contact, speaking directly to rescue services is usually faster because it skips several steps.
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FAQ
