 Poster: A snowHead
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@swoafs, thanks very helpful.. with how you describe yourself you might be pretty close to L1 level of skiing.. Id go 8.8 
I have heard from a few instructors at L1 and L2 and sounds like what Carv "likes" in terms of short turns isnt what the model is for say BASI. And scores from a couple of instructors tend to be slightly lower than non instructors at similar level. Perhaps overly controlled or not steep enough terrain but defo enough data that there is an effect
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@swoafs, i'd agree with @skimottaret and say with a carv score around that level you're not far off a L1 instructor qualification. It's designed as an introduction to the industry and the skiing ability picks up more and more as you progress to L2 and beyond. Arguably the jump from L2 to L3 is perhaps the most difficult to bridge.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Been skiing around with 3 guys who have Carv on and I recon that looking at your Daily Best IQ scores is the way to group people into "levels". Season Best is okay but for me if you are out for a weeks hols and avg your daily scores (on the days when you were actually trying) gives a pretty good correlation to our IOS levels. Only seen a few people ski but the lower the level or lesser experienced skier with Carv the wider Daily best scores were and the better skiers had less variation.
Have updated the OP but would love to hear about your Season Best is plus say your last 6 or so daily best scores and best guess at Inside Out Level
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 21-03-26 11:41; edited 1 time in total
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Season best - 143
Last 6 - 141, 136, 143, 143, 138, 142
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@doddsie, thanks but you recon you are a 9 at best on our scale ? from what I was seeing on the hill skiing with an L1 and L2 instructor I would have thought higher than that
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Season best 135
Last 6- 114 (parallel in fog and snow), 123 (powder), 132, 132, 135, 131-last 4 days carving on the best groomed and quietest pistes we can find.
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@Perty, any thoughts on your inside out level?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My last few days were 143, 151, 129, 140, 142, 141, with the 151 being my season best.
But these are my carving scores. My short turns and moguls were generally 10-20 points lower (apart from the 129 day which was knee deep fresh snow).
I was on a performance ski training week and the other participants were multi season instructors working towards their Landes 2 exams and another had already completed Landes 2. On the long turns we were at a very similar level, but on shorts I felt like a beginner in comparison. To the point where we couldn’t really train the same things. The Landes instructors didn’t have Carv, but the coach did and he scores 167-173 across all disciplines!
So worth considering both Carving and Short SkiIQs, as I may be your Level 10 at carving but only 7 or 8 skiing shorts.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 21-03-26 16:38; edited 2 times in total
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@skimottaret, having looked at the IOS levels, I think I’m a solid level 9 (carving), 127 best score for short turns. But inevitably score lower when bumbling around the mountains on sub optimal busy pistes. I now need a human instructor session to help solve bad habits!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@kerb, who was your course with?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Perty wrote: |
| I now need a human instructor session to help solve bad habits! |
The key aspect with CARV!
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| swskier wrote: |
| @kerb, who was your course with? |
Ski Instructor Academy in Kaprun. Instructor was Jonathan Seale if you want to check his Carv scores in the app.
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You know it makes sense.
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@kerb, i spent a day with him on Sunday 1st March doing some training, working towards some exams myself. We were mainly focusing that day on shorts and bumps.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| swskier wrote: |
| @kerb, i spent a day with him on Sunday 1st March doing some training, working towards some exams myself. We were mainly focusing that day on shorts and bumps. |
Was very impressed with him, both his skiing and coaching style. It was illuminating to witness the difference in skiing between him and the Landes 2 instructors on the course (Level 3 vs Level 4). It was similar in magnitude to the gulf between me and them 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@kerb, yeah he's a fantastic skier. I'd say L4 (staatlich geprüfter in the austrian system) is a middle ground between the Landes 2 and him as a trainer. You wouldn't need to be as good as him to pass the L4.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My high score (137) is well below where I thought I was on the Inside Out levels guide. I can fool myself that it's because I'm more used to skiing offpiste, or I can face reality...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@kerb, Thanks, interesting to hear such a wide difference between shorts and carving... Im finding the opposite, my ropey shorts are scoring higher than longs which felt okay. Just finished a weeks teaching and had em running in background so need to dive into the weeds a bit to understand what's and why's.
What's your season best shorts ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
@kerb, Thanks, interesting to hear such a wide difference between shorts and carving...
What's your season best shorts ? |
141 but that was a bit of a one off. It’s generally around 124. My shorts are shockingly poor 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@skimottaret, Yes still think I’m 9 at best.
I was with MadMiloSkis today and his 6 days over Christmas were, 165,170,170,171,172 trying to get a best score carving, with a day in the middle trying for short turns, where he could only manage 159.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@KSH, nah, wont need Carv scores on our general clinics but we are looking at putting on a CarvCamp next season plus more and more clients are using em and Im curious to understand more.
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@doddsie, hmmm, does seem to me those with loads more time with Carv are scoring better than perhaps my Level would indicate... with those Carv scores I would have guessed a 10...
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I left my Carv sensors in the Alps when I went to Japan early seasons so I've only had four days (last week) on the new algorithm (good stuff isn't it?).
I think I'm probably L10 (lower half) and my best is 148 carving (on SLs) but only 144 on my usual skis (Enforcer 99s). I've much less time using Carv on parallel/shorts/moguls/powder but I've been a bit surprised I'm only scoring bests of 136-140 across those - surprised only because as someone who has never raced and spends a lot of time off piste I expected those to be my stronger suits. Maybe those scores will come up once I've had a bit of time with Carv on those.
I normally manage a daily best in the 140s but not without a bit of focus (i.e., cranking it up when I'm offered a suitable pitch!).
My bests are 148 on black*, 147 on red, 144 on blue. My scores were pretty similar with the new algorithm to the old.
*think this is judged by the piste map rather than measured pitch so I should say Les Contamines "black" which is probably, e.g., VdI/Chamonix red
Overall, skimottaret, I reckon your new grade boundaries look pretty good.
BTW are you guys integrate Carv into your coaching/teaching now? It would be a real selling point to me - think it would really help me work on things between lessons.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 23-03-26 17:20; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| @KSH, nah, wont need Carv scores on our general clinics but we are looking at putting on a CarvCamp next season plus more and more clients are using em and Im curious to understand more. |
sorry just seen this - keep us posted!
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@skimottaret, phew. I don't need another way of humiliating myself.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
@swoafs, thanks very helpful.. with how you describe yourself you might be pretty close to L1 level of skiing.. Id go 8.8
I have heard from a few instructors at L1 and L2 and sounds like what Carv "likes" in terms of short turns isnt what the model is for say BASI. And scores from a couple of instructors tend to be slightly lower than non instructors at similar level. Perhaps overly controlled or not steep enough terrain but defo enough data that there is an effect |
Just on this, my hunch is that steep terrain is quite key to good scores on shorts in part because it just gives you points for steepness but also it is much easier to get good rebound when it is steep and you get points for that too. Last week in Les Contamines the pistes were lovely but the off piste was refrozen slush and anyone who knows Les C will appreciate you don't get many steep pistes to play on! My best was 139 on shorts, generally scoring 135+, but feel I should be doing better.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@jedster, I need to get a few more peoples scores from those ive seen on the hill or coupled with video but encouragingly I think Carv scores map pretty well with our thoughts on levels. I think the key metric is your daily score over the holiday on days you are actually giving it some gas... top score not so much value to me.
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Had a Carv session today (and a quick few runs with @perty) to do some video and try to make sense of the scores. One thing I find somewhat odd is that on runs that are slightly bigger radius than what Carv thinks a Short turn should be is I tend to get good scores for "parallel" (even with 58deg edge angles) and they arent considered Carved.. guess im skidding or something.. but the Parallel thing isnt making much sense ..
Defo need to be on >20 deg slopes to get any score and shorts seem to be wiggles and Carved more medium radius that are completed across the hill . Liking it so far
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You know it makes sense.
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@jedster, Ive put the finishing touches on on a CarvCamp in Meribel, put a post up to get feedback on content, hours, feedback ideas etc but the thread got pulled as I guess considered spammy... Have a look at my sig link and you can check it out
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| @jedster, I need to get a few more peoples scores from those ive seen on the hill or coupled with video but encouragingly I think Carv scores map pretty well with our thoughts on levels. I think the key metric is your daily score over the holiday on days you are actually giving it some gas... top score not so much value to me. |
That makes sense, particularly if you are seeing big differences between typical daily scores and personal bests. Personally I find that on any day that I'm skiing steeper pitches with purpose I'm not that far off my bests.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@skimottaret, just for some more data for you. Of the 7 of us on the L4 tech, 4 of us have CARV and we all see a noticeable difference between our carving score and shorts score with carving being higher.
I upped my shorts score today with a quite narrow corridor. Later in the day I bumped my parallel score up to virtually the same as my shorts, even though I was actually skiing a wide short turn, carv has it down as a parallel run.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Eyes on the prize man, bin those Carv things on an exam ! 
But I found the same, go slightly over 4m corridor and you get a Parallel turn score. Basi shorts are defo not Carv shorts. Iasi seems to like a narrower punchy turn for shorts, least did when I was having a crack.. Bon Chance
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@skimottaret, we all just have them on in the background as a point of interest. We had a good chat about how they link to qualifications, general consensus was they could be used as a good indicator as to when you should consider booking on to an exam, based on some parameters of X CARV score means you should book a L1, 2 etc, much like you've done with your own mapping.
I'd say our shorts are generally on the longer side, more like your description of BASI, but they want to see all shapes and sizes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Have either of you worked out the optimum stats for short turns to get the best CARV score? Jnr tried for a day over Xmas but could never work out what they wanted, his best score came with a 1.0m corridor and 97tpm.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@doddsie, look at Jonathan Seale on the leaderboard, the name Kerb and I talked about earlier, his shorts are a 173, 85 tpm 1.6m corridor, not too dissimilar to Jnr.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| @jedster, Ive put the finishing touches on on a CarvCamp in Meribel, put a post up to get feedback on content, hours, feedback ideas etc but the thread got pulled as I guess considered spammy... Have a look at my sig link and you can check it out |
Thanks - got it. Shall have a domestic negotiation!
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| doddsie wrote: |
| Have either of you worked out the optimum stats for short turns to get the best CARV score? Jnr tried for a day over Xmas but could never work out what they wanted, his best score came with a 1.0m corridor and 97tpm. |
I agree it seems to like tight, high tempo, rebounding turns on steep pitches.
Actually I've noticed something a bit similar with moguls. My basic take on moguls is that absorption and speed control is the key - you build from there. But if I focus on this I tend to score in the high 120s. If I let the skis run and ski with less control but at higher tempo I get higher scores (only mid 130s). To me, it feels that I am skiing better in the first mode but I can totally see that the latter probably looks more like good mogul skiers. The bumps I was playing on were rather misshaped, I need some ego bumps to attack!
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@swskier, Thanks will do, seems that roughly that turn rate and corridor is the sweet spot then. He tried taking the turn rate up to 200 and went narrower and wider with the corridor, but the scores went down.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| doddsie wrote: |
| Have either of you worked out the optimum stats for short turns to get the best CARV score? Jnr tried for a day over Xmas but could never work out what they wanted, his best score came with a 1.0m corridor and 97tpm. |
Not yet but am starting to get a clearer picture. After a few morning sessions my best scores tended to be scored as Parallel when I was doing "shorts" tightening the corridor and upping tempo then got me "shorts" . Same for Carving first runs disappointing as I was laying down decent GS turns around 25 metre radius but lowish scores. Tightening up radius again and turning back up the hill doing more mediums scores are improving. Dont want to game the scores but useful to understand... anything under 20 deg pitch is a waste of time for Advanced skiers trying to up scores BUT great to work on skills and metrics
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@skimottaret, there are people getting 150+ scores on relatively flat pitches....they do say they rewards good technique on steeper slopes higher than good technique on shallower slopes IIRC
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FAQ
