 Poster: A snowHead
|
@Steilhang, if a slope is sub 25 degrees (true figure is closer to 30 degrees but it can vary) a slab avalanche won't trigger even on level 5. In a resort like Les Houches there is barely any terrain steeper than 25 degrees, check a map with gradients, Strava has one. Therefore if they open the slopes and you can get there safely why wouldn't you ski? The chance of being killed in an avalanche sticking to open slopes is pretty close to zero.
I was in Les Sept Laux last week on level 4 day. Lots of lifts and pistes were shut. To my suprise Faucons, a steep unpisted but fairly low altitude itinerary was open. Some of the the best powder skiing that I have experienced. If the resort thought there was any chance that Faucons would slide they wouldn't have opened it
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| rambotion wrote: |
| @Steilhang, if a slope is sub 25 degrees (true figure is closer to 30 degrees but it can vary) a slab avalanche won't trigger even on level 5. ... |
It won't trigger remotely, but I think one could still be triggered by people using the slope, particularly if there is a PWL or similar.
I think the point is that there is no "blanket" level 5 day, even if that is indicated by something like a national meteo service. Villages and slopes vary, and each resort makes decisions appropriate to local circumstances. Some villages in narrow valleys may have "shelter in place" or even "evacuate" requirements, but if their pistes are on top of a mountain and have low gradients they might be relatively safe. Conversely a village further out into a plain may be safe, but if its ski area is all overlooked by steep terrain it will be completely shut. Others may only open a few specific slopes but keep the rest closed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@rambotion, the piste is not the thing that slides. In each case, for me at least, it was steep terrain above the piste that went. Pure luck that no one was standing at that spot at that time. Sure, if the entire mountain is sub 25° then things should be safe enough
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@ecureuil, @Steilhang, I'm aware of that, hence the use of Les Houches as an example, it is not threatened from above.
@Steilhang, to witness two avalanches hit open pistes must be exceedingly rare. This season has been particularly dangerous and as far as I am aware there have been two avalanches burying people on open slopes, the one in the video above and one in Sainte Foy with mercifully zero fatalities. Any others? What's the average for annual European on-piste avalanche deaths? I would guess well under 1 a year out of millions of skier days. There was a bad one in Crans Montana a few years ago, I vaguely recall a child being killed in Cervinia a few years back, Val Thorens had a bad one but that was a very long time ago.
I'm sure there are others but it is vary rare and probably not the main danger of death even on an L4 day with the risk from crashing or being crashed into probably being higher
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@rambotion, the statement was that piste skiing is absolutely safe (from slides). It isn't, even if very rare. My experiences stretch back to 1985, when I moved over here... so not so frequent!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think the topography is also a big factor. If there are slopes above the slopes you are skiing the risk is higher. If your slopes are in effect on the top of the ground in the area with no slopes above its safer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Rogerdodger, limited opening and lots of warnings about skiing off-piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@peanuthead, I saw people in serious whiteout conditions on some of the steeper sections of Le Familiele (spelling) with no gear, including somebody on their own. I saw various people on steeper sections skiing fresh tracks going into Le Lac whic ESF was not going onto. I similarly did not see anybody on the major faces/routes Monday to Friday, we had a bandit who was asked to go back to safer terrain and the piste as he had no equipment. On the Saturday I saw people skiing steep wind loaded parts from the Aiguille Percee once that had opened and I saw people on P9-11 (not sure which ones) but pretty steep stuff, maybe it had stabilised some more by then but we were not venturing onto stuff that steep with our guide unless it was in the trees of Le Glattier or off from the Sache.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Interesting stats. Very high numbers in 2020/21 when I thought mountains and lift systems were shut down, or was that the following winter?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Snow&skifan, possibly that year, but would have been a boom in people touring, a number of whom would have been new to it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@Snow&skifan, French lifts were shut, not Swiss, not sure on Italy. Lots of touring, lots of snow (was a bumper season here), massively reduced security?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Thanks @JayDub, it's a whole new world. My understanding was that Everything on level 5 was closed down. I must start a course of re-education.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Italy was shut but at least judging by where i live there was a boom in touring
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| @Snow&skifan, French lifts were shut, not Swiss, not sure on Italy. Lots of touring, lots of snow (was a bumper season here), massively reduced security? |
I kind of remember the Swiss thing of open mountains and lifts. We had two separate ski holidays booked to Arosa, sadly cancelled when Germany/EU put pressure on Switzerland to end their willingness to take non EU travellers for, for example, ski trips.
It may’ve been the second winter of 2021/22 when resort webcams showed fantastic depths of snow in the Alps, all pristine, with completely closed lift sytems.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
As I mentioned in another thread, my concern was that with all this snow if we have too warm temperatures we'll start to see other issues in that the snow will be heavy and wet, which I've personally already experienced this week.
And as the week's progressed so the temps have increased, and La Grave today closed the lift from 13:30.
And now we're seeing reports of wet snow avalanches, the type that you usually would see in late April.
Extract from a report note the "lourde et humide",
En survolant une avalanche survenue la veille, les secouristes ont reçu deux signaux. Les corps de deux femmes pratiquant le ski de randonnée "ont été retrouvés à 50 cm et 1,50 m de profondeur" sous la surface de cette coulée "lourde et humide" et mesurant "200 mètres de long, 50 mètres de large et 2 mètres d’épaisseur, indiquent les sapeurs-pompiers, cités par France 3 régions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@Weathercam, Mate in La Grave told me of the 1.30 limit … he’s thinking about piste skiing at LdA or AdH … 1.30 is probably only 2 circuits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Snow&skifan, it's easy to enforce no skiing if you just stop the lift operators from running lift.
A chum spent his first confinement photographing every single one of the concrete blocks the Geneva police had put across every foreign entry road into the canton.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
thanks for the link, great resource
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@Weathercam, as you say, it's the travel across what might otherwise be considered "safe" that's really disturbing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Just back from La Tzoumaz and there were no avalanches while we were there...other than planned ones.
However, the avalanche risk was 3 out of 5 and despite some runs being closed there were still idiots skiing on them....including the Planards to Carrefour path which was covered in avalanches last year and can be avoided with a 5 minute bus journey. The problem is not the mountains but the plonkers who think that they know better.
Apparently, this year the Verbier people ahve a drone that they send out to identify people in areas that they should not be. They can then broadcast a message telling them to get back on the pist
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Really sad, young lives. A look online shows at least one was a talented skier, and a mountaineer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@Weathercam wow, that is sobering. I am looking for a touring objective this weekend, i will be very careful
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Hurdy wrote: |
Just back from La Tzoumaz and there were no avalanches while we were there...other than planned ones.
However, the avalanche risk was 3 out of 5 and despite some runs being closed there were still idiots skiing on them....including the Planards to Carrefour path which was covered in avalanches last year and can be avoided with a 5 minute bus journey. The problem is not the mountains but the plonkers who think that they know better.
Apparently, this year the Verbier people ahve a drone that they send out to identify people in areas that they should not be. They can then broadcast a message telling them to get back on the pist |
I saw that! i also saw a video of the val d'isere pisteurs with a drone but they didn't seem to be issuing commands, just checking who is off piste in which zones...maybe they will go the verbier route
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Had a friend with a torn ACL when skiing the off-piste route near Lac du Lou refuge in the Val Thorens valley a couple of weeks ago. The local pisteurs first sent in a drone to determine whether it was a helicopter evacuation or blood wagon to get him out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I could also see it being useful to give advice (to anyone not trapped) in locations where others attending would be in significant danger.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Thank you, really interesting report, incredible detail from the authorities.
Regarding the Gampberg incident, folk stood little chance with that volume of snow funneled into a narrow gully.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Alastair Pink wrote: |
Here's a guide's perspective on the causes and lessons that can be drawn from the recent Tahoe avalanche:
|
Interesting analysis. Most (and possibly all) of those 9 skiers group would have survived if they’d followed the standard protocols to reduce their risk. À good reminder to keep our eyes open and brains fully switched on at all times when off piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I'm not so sure "interesting", more like completely damning. The forecast pretty much predicted it perfectly. They skied >30 on level 4 day. It's implied they didn't ski one at a time. How can 3 "professional" guides make such stupid mistakes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@boarder2020, I thought he explained quite clearly how experienced professionals can make those mistakes. That's not excusing it of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
