 Poster: A snowHead
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@Astontech, you'll be fine, I'm sure. Just take it easy. If the all-seasons are new then they'll be nearly as good as full on winters (well, that's my experience).
As said above, if you need chains with the Contis on, snow socks won't cut it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
this would have to be in extreme situations but happy to be corrected.
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It doesn't have to be THAT extreme, on busy transfer days, for police to insist on chains for people driving up to resorts. It doesn't happen often - a couple of days each season. And often people who have never encountered the situation seem to think that those of us who have are making it up.  the forecast for next weekend might well change, of course, but as of right now, we are looking at a LOT of snow. If it comes true, a "once in a season" snowfall for parts of the northern Alps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Origen, yes I have been watching the weather closely and will be heading to Chatel next weekend and have rented a Peugeot 308 with winters. Hertz at GVA CH no longer provides chains as a rental options but instead the option to purchase snow socks from them.
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@Origen, yeah, I've never encountered it but I rarely drive up to 1,650m. I have been waved on by les flics who were mandating chains for everyone else however.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The unlucky people, of course, are the ones who end up on camp beds in sports halls down in the valley. Further north, driving down in nasty weather, I've heard announcements on the the radio mandating all "poids lourds" to get off the road into aires. And once had to drive in convoy behind a snowplough for about 20 miles on the motorway on the French side of the Fréjus Tunnel. Then emerged into Italy where there was not one single drop of snow to be seen anywhere - the entire landscape just dry and brown.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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All-season tyres are noticable worse in wintry conditions than winter 3PSMF tyres. You should definitely have chains or snow socks as add-on when roads turns snowy.
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| matejp wrote: |
| All-season tyres are noticable worse in wintry conditions than winter 3PSMF tyres. You should definitely have chains or snow socks as add-on when roads turns snowy. |
Most recent All Season tyres are 3PSMF compliant (although not all All Seasons are equal)
For me, if the conditions were so bad that Cross Climates and chains couldn't get me through then I'd be looking for somewhere to park up. As I said above, I drove down from La Plagne last year after over a metre of snow the day before. There was snow on the road all the way down to the main road in the valley.
Not once did it feel twitchy or worrying. I'm heading down on Friday night so will see if it's the same this year as it'll be mid-storm.
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The region around Paris is currently chaotic due to some snow but more significantly black ice with very low temperatures
Some motorways have been closed
Weather from Thursday looks both very windy and cold across much of the country
Weather with more snow likely into middle of next week
So you may get to practice use of chains well before the alps!
Some big queues on major routes so make sure you have plenty of supplies and warm kit with you
Not a weekend to travel with EV!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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With your vehicle and snow chains you will get up pretty much anything.
Drive positively and enjoy the slalom (uphill) around all the abandoned cars and vans.
Be sure to give us a full incident report here!
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| Quote: |
enjoy the slalom (uphill) around all the abandoned cars and vans.
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yes, that reminds me - when I was required to put chains on, going up from Albertville towards Les Saisies, I knew my car would be OK without, having very good tyres. But then when I had to drive onto a very snowy verge to get round a truck which was stopped slewed across part of both carriageways I was very glad to have them as there was no way I'd have got past without. But there does come a time, of course, when you just can't make headway. Then it's a case of just waiting, being glad you've got all those snacks and drinks and hoping you won't have to get out for a wee.
BUT - it's always good to see the snow bucketing down when you're on your way TO your holiday week.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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There's a second point about marigolds - if it is bitterly cold, marigolds will stop the chains sticking to your fingers, but you will retain some sense of touch!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Slightly more general point about chains/socks on 2WD v. 4WD
Do you need one pair for 2WD & two pair for 4WD ?
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| ster wrote: |
Take a head torch, marigolds (chains are mucky) as gloves , cardboard to kneel on and a plastic bin to throw the used muddy wet chains into.
And practice putting them on in benign surroundings if you can.
Fail to prepare…… |
Second the head torch. Although I would recommend something like tough nitrile gardening gloves rather than marigolds. And a foam pad of some sort rather than cardboard to kneel on.
Some other tips...
If there is a large open flat area covered with snow - e.g. an empty car park - have a go at stopping suddenly to get a feel for how much grip you have.
On downhill sections - use engine braking where possible (harder in an automatic unless you can manually select low gears).
Finally - if you find yourself in an unrecoverable slide - try to choose something soft to bump in to!! In a US ice storm I once had to select a large powdery snow bank in preference to traffic ahead. Car undamaged! This was without chains or even winter tyres - ice storm was not expected!!
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You know it makes sense.
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There's usually no room for a plastic bin in a family car filled to the gunwhales with ski gear. But a strong black poly bag does the job - they never go back in the dear little boxes they arrive in.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It was during our sojourn in Niseko last year—an expedition undertaken in the name of winter sport, fresh air, and other such wholesome pursuits—that we discovered the local road‑maintenance arrangements to be of two distinct schools of thought. One faction favoured the “warm water gently burbling over the tarmac” method, which left the roads as benign as a well‑behaved bathmat. The other, more devil‑may‑care brigade opted for the “plough it and hope for the best” approach, producing surfaces upon which even a mountain goat would have thought twice before proceeding.
It was along one of these latter specimens that the evening’s entertainment unfolded. My wife, who has a keen eye for impending doom—she can spot a wobbling ladder or a suspiciously leaning wedding cake at fifty paces—halted abruptly and emitted a small but meaningful gasp. Down the slope, a motorcar, having apparently decided that traction was for lesser vehicles, began a stately, gliding descent. It drifted past us with the serene inevitability of a dowager duchess entering a ballroom, before burying itself in a snowbank with a soft whump.
No sooner had we digested this spectacle than another car followed suit, colliding with the first in a manner suggesting that it had been invited to a particularly intimate gathering. Then came a third. And a fourth. By the time the sixth arrived—this one a police car, which lent the whole affair a certain official imprimatur—the scene resembled a sort of impromptu automotive conga line, albeit one choreographed by a particularly mischievous fate.
My wife, demonstrating admirable presence of mind, had by this point hurled herself into a snowdrift, from which she peered out like a startled arctic vole surveying the collapse of civilisation.
The whole bally mess, of course, could have been avoided had the drivers deigned to equip their vehicles with snow chains. But no—chains, it seemed, were considered optional, like napkin rings or moral restraint.
The following night was an improvement, if one can call a mere three‑car pile‑up an improvement. In Niseko, we learned, progress is incremental.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dylan_T42 wrote: |
Slightly more general point about chains/socks on 2WD v. 4WD
Do you need one pair for 2WD & two pair for 4WD ? |
Generally only one pair, but they should be on the 'main' driving axle, which for most cars is the front, but BMWs are normally rear wheel drive, so I imagine the x-drive models will be rear biased, hence you put the chains on the rears.
In permanent mechanical 4WD vehicles like my LR Defender I really don't know - it's never come up - but I imagine the front would be preferred, for better steering and braking.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't think vehicles like Defenders are required to put on chains on ordinary sort of roads in the Alps, though of course the people who do lots of off road stuff use all kinds of things. I once helped push a Land Rover along a murram road in Kenya (I don't remember the circumstances but it seemed polite for me to join in with the guys rather than sit there like Lady Muck). Got completely sprayed with glutinous red mud.
The most useful feature of a vehicle like a Land Rover is probably the extra clearance. Cars which are very "low to the ground" can just get stuck on the snow which builds up. I once grossly overestimated the capability of me and my car, complete with chains, to drive through deep snow and it took me and a kind French neighbour a long time getting it moving again. I think the guy who normally cleared the road round our apartments was on strike after an argument with the co-pro about his fees.....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Dylan_T42 wrote: |
Slightly more general point about chains/socks on 2WD v. 4WD
Do you need one pair for 2WD & two pair for 4WD ? |
Generally only one pair, but they should be on the 'main' driving axle, which for most cars is the front, but BMWs are normally rear wheel drive, so I imagine the x-drive models will be rear biased, hence you put the chains on the rears.
In permanent mechanical 4WD vehicles like my LR Defender I really don't know - it's never come up - but I imagine the front would be preferred, for better steering and braking. |
Owners manual says rear wheels on my AWD. Some 4x4 prohibit use of chains altogether
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IME those that disallow chains do so because of clearance issues not the 4WD system per se,
Some chains are OK though, like the Steg Centrax ones I got for my 99 Volvo V70XC
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 7-01-26 23:47; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For several years I used an ordinary Peugeot 306 diesel with standard alloy wheels. There was not enough space between the tyre wall and the suspension strut to be able to use chains.
I did have Nokian tyres though so the chains in the boot were just for M. le Gendarme's benefit!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@johnE, highly entertaining account of Niseko, especially liked Mrs.E's impression of a snow vole. Seems the Japanese are intent on confirming that the West doesn't have a monopoly on idiocy.
I'll be getting snow chains for the front wheels, but very glad to have sorted out a set winter tyres + alloys which are already proving their worth with several days of snow+ice on our road.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Dylan_T42, I have confess I used Microsoft copilot to rewrite a dull story. The style is pg woodhouse
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| Quote: |
@Origen, has suggested aboive that the police can insist that only cars fitted with chains or no cars at all can proceed if the conditions are unsafe - but IMO this would have to be in extreme situations
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It generally happens only on very snowy transfer days. But it most definitely happens. That's how they keep the traffic moving up the hill even though the majority of arrivals don't have winter tyres!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Astontech wrote: |
Hope this is the right section of the forum, please redirect me if not.
I am due to be heading to Les Saisies at 1650m via Megeve either Friday/Saturday this week, looks like there will be snow to low levels
I have never actually driven up a mountain in snow before but I am generally a confident driver and have driven through the French, Swiss and Italian alps for hours so I am familiar with mountain driving (albeit on summer).
I drive a AWD BMW X3 which I am fitting with all season tyres that perform well in snow:
https://www.halfords.com/tyres/audi/continental-allseasoncontact-255%2F45-r20-105w-xl-4338275.html
I will also pick up some snow chains.
Think I will be ok with that set up? Any tips? Should I just wait until they clear the roads or will I be ok to head up in falling snow? |
I've only driven hire cars on snow with *winter* tyres, and they are quite remarkable. Probably all you need on main roads.
But all season tyres are not winter tyres - they are a compromise. They don't meet legal requirements (unless they have the correct markings) and snow chains must then be carried.
https://www.the-ski-guru.com/2025/10/28/winter-tyres-snow-chains-europe-alps-pyrenees/
In France:
In these zones, vehicles must either:
Have four winter tyres (or suitable all-season tyres) marked “M+S” and/or “3PMSF”, or
Carry snow chains (or snow socks) for at least two drive wheels.
From 1 November 2024, tyres with only the “M+S” marking will no longer suffice in many zones; only tyres with the snowflake symbol (3PMSF) will meet the requirement.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 8-01-26 15:46; edited 2 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Origen wrote: |
| Quote: |
@Origen, has suggested aboive that the police can insist that only cars fitted with chains or no cars at all can proceed if the conditions are unsafe - but IMO this would have to be in extreme situations
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It generally happens only on very snowy transfer days. But it most definitely happens. That's how they keep the traffic moving up the hill even though the majority of arrivals don't have winter tyres! |
I assume this measure wlll now be rarer now that chains or winter tyres are mandated in the French Alps and Juras.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| Origen wrote: |
| Quote: |
@Origen, has suggested aboive that the police can insist that only cars fitted with chains or no cars at all can proceed if the conditions are unsafe - but IMO this would have to be in extreme situations
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It generally happens only on very snowy transfer days. But it most definitely happens. That's how they keep the traffic moving up the hill even though the majority of arrivals don't have winter tyres! |
I assume this measure wlll now be rarer now that chains or winter tyres are mandated in the French Alps and Juras. |
Why would it be any different?
In the situation that the OP was asking about, you have always needed to have chains or winter tyres, the only change is to requirements for valley roads.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rjs wrote: |
| Ozboy wrote: |
| Origen wrote: |
| Quote: |
@Origen, has suggested aboive that the police can insist that only cars fitted with chains or no cars at all can proceed if the conditions are unsafe - but IMO this would have to be in extreme situations
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It generally happens only on very snowy transfer days. But it most definitely happens. That's how they keep the traffic moving up the hill even though the majority of arrivals don't have winter tyres! |
I assume this measure wlll now be rarer now that chains or winter tyres are mandated in the French Alps and Juras. |
Why would it be any different?
In the situation that the OP was asking about, you have always needed to have chains or winter tyres, the only change is to requirements for valley roads. |
It will be different as more cars will now be properly equipped in line with the rules.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| buchanan101 wrote: |
| But all season tyres are not winter tyres - they are a compromise |
That used to be the case, but there are a number of all-season tyres now with the 3-peaks/snowflake rating that outperform a good number of dedicated winter tyres on snow.
Auto Bild's tests are always interesting; you can see all-season tyres outperforming a "reference winter" tyre on 3 out of 4 snow measures: AutoBild All-Season Tyres 2025
| buchanan101 wrote: |
| tyres with the snowflake symbol (3PMSF) will meet the requirement. |
This. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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No, no difference at all. IME the majority of French visitors (which is by far the biggest group visiting our area) are self-driving, in cars without winter tyres but they carry chains and are quite capable of using them - when it was snowy in Les Saisies the majority of cars moving around the village had chains. Also IME when told to put on chains it made no difference whether you had winter tyres or not - but proper 4WD vehicles, like Defenders, were OK to carry on. some snowheads have reported that they were OK to carry on in 4WD vehicles provided they had winter tyres with a decent amount of tread left!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@J2Dave, was just going to comment the same. Michelin Cross Climates changed the game for All Seasons and the newer ones from all the other manufacturers are catching up.
Decent all seasons will meet the legal standards with the right markings. They'll be perfectly good for all but the worst conditions.
I wish they'd fit them as standard on UK cars if I'm honest. The operating window for them is so much more suited to the UK weather than summers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My cross climate tyres are extremely good. But - this won't make any difference when there are police requirements for chains which do not differentiate between different types of tyres. But if more people have good tyres, that will certainly help to keep traffic moving on snowy days other than busy transfer Saturdays, when chains are not compulsory. Vehicles with summer tyres are no less likely to cause chaos just because they are obeying the rules and have chains in the boot!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Origen wrote: |
| My cross climate tyres are extremely good. But - this won't make any difference when there are police requirements for chains which do not differentiate between different types of tyres. But if more people have good tyres, that will certainly help to keep traffic moving on snowy days other than busy transfer Saturdays, when chains are not compulsory. Vehicles with summer tyres are no less likely to cause chaos just because they are obeying the rules and have chains in the boot! |
chains aren’t compulsory on Saturdays? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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they are not often compulsory on "snowy days other than busy transfer Saturdays". Sorry if that wasn't clear. I have said more than once that chains ARE sometimes compulsory (even if you have winter tyres) on snowy transfer Saturdays. The police are not bothered if poorly equipped vehicles get stuck on days when there aren't vast numbers of people trying to get up the hill! Local garages make a fine living pulling them out.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Got it, thanks!
As a side note, does anyone know of a garage in the northern French alps with good stock of winter tyres? I have a hassle today picking mine up and if they don’t come tomorrow I am going to either a) try to find some in France or b) take a transfer up the hill.
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I sold my set of winter tyres complete with the alloy wheels last Saturday on eBay, I think I would have got a much better price today. 
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Where would you get a transfer from? I think that could pose a few problems.
my own first port of call for tyres would probably be Feu Vert in Albertville - but if you're going through Megeve you won't go to Albertville - so Sallanches is probably your best bet.
If you've got chains already then don't worry about the tyres, just make sure you're confident getting the chains on. I think the chances of chains being compulsory on Saturday are quite high and in that case having winter tyres will make no difference. I suspect many, many, cars driving round LS this weekend will have chains on. Some people here talk about chains as though they were vanishingly rare. And extraordinarily difficult and challenging.
They're neither. But you do not want to be doing it for the first time in a foot or so of filthy snow in a lay-bye. Though that is better than doing it in the middle of the road when your car will go no further. Don't leave it too late.
No drastic changes of plan are necessary! There are regular ski busses up to LS from Albertville and that would probably be your best bet if you decide not to drive up (involving a change of route, obviously, don't go via Megeve). But Albertville might be quite snowy and finding a safe place to leave your car not the simplest thing.
With a good set of chains, you'll get up the hill fine, though with "summer" tyres you might just need to put them on a bit earlier than you would with winters.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thank you, that is super helpful.
I am to get the all season tyres on regardless but looks like I’ll need to pick some chains up too.
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@Astontech, you get what you pay for with chains, cheaper are a lot harder to fit, the more you spend the easier they can be.
More here
https://www.stylealtitude.com/snow-chains-or-winter-tyres.html2
I've been driving today in pretty heavy snow on a couple of occasions and the traffic has steadily decreased throughout the day, I've seen very few cars with chains it must be said.
I've just measured the snow on the table on our terrace at 25cm so that's probably 30cm+ with an element of consolidation.
Issues could be just getting out on to the road tomorrow having to dig your way out as the snowploughs clear the snow off the main roads into banks blocking all the other roads, it's all fun n'games when it's like this, and getting up my hill 17% I'm glad I have my 4x4 as there's a sharp right I have to take and then you can hear the rears doing their thing, though the other game is whether to take it in 1st or 2nd
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FAQ
