 Poster: A snowHead
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Rather than diverting the main weather thread, this is something I've heard since, oh, about 1988? That in this part of the world, Haute-Savoie, that it can be "too cold to snow". Never really though about it but looking at the hopeful forecasts, certainly it's warming up before it snows (-10C in Chamonix this morning. Very chilly).
I appreciate the comment that the North Pole is pretty cold and snows a lot, but pressure, etc. Also, arctic behaviour seems rather complicated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Arctic
Discuss?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@under a new name, we've always said that oop North
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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How much moisture can the air hold at say -10 or -15?
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @under a new name, we've always said that oop North |
Indeed, along with "it's cold enough to snow". No I've never understood this either 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
Rather than diverting the main weather thread, this is something I've heard since, oh, about 1988? That in this part of the world, Haute-Savoie, that it can be "too cold to snow". Never really though about it but looking at the hopeful forecasts, certainly it's warming up before it snows (-10C in Chamonix this morning. Very chilly).
I appreciate the comment that the North Pole is pretty cold and snows a lot, but pressure, etc. Also, arctic behaviour seems rather complicated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Arctic
Discuss? |
Errr...surely it's just a correlation. That is - it takes clear skies for things to get really cold.
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Nowadays if I want a quick answer to confirm a thesis I’ll just ask a robot…..or look up at Mont Blanc in July
AI
Snow requires two main things: temperatures below freezing (so precipitation stays frozen) and sufficient moisture in the air.
• Extremely cold air holds less moisture (water vapor), so heavy snowfalls are rarer at very low temperatures — they tend to occur closer to 0°C when the air can hold more humidity.
• But light snow or flurries can (and do) happen even at -20°C, -30°C, or colder, as long as there’s some moisture and atmospheric lift to form ice crystals. It snows regularly in Antarctica at temperatures below -50°C!
• In Chamonix, January lows average around -10°C to -11°C, with extremes often reaching -20°C or lower in cold spells. Snowfall is still common (typically 10–15 snowy days in January), often as dry powder during the coldest periods.
• Forecasts and historical reports frequently show snowfall when valley temperatures are -15°C or below — the cold just makes the snow lighter and finer
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@under a new name, my mother used to say it a lot when I was a child. But I've learnt to take her wisdom with a bucket of salt, in the West Midlands anyway
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I believe the cutoff point for nice fluffy snow is -9 degrees celsius.
Below that, the nice cristalline structure the with extended arms, does not form properly. You get ball-like structures which are less fluffy.
I can imagine this is not a binary change at -9, but somewhat gradually.
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| under a new name wrote: |
Discuss? |
There is some truth in it:
Generally when Alps gets really cold (like -20c) the weather tends to come from the east. Which of course is a generally much drier direction.
More moisture laden weather systems tends to be a little milder and come from N to W direction. Then there is the dreaded southerly "fohen".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In most of the UK, it does tend to have some truth to it, because it usually only gets really cold in the UK when the skies are clear. But anywhere that gets that cold when there are still cloudy skies, it can snow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In the UK we tend to get heavy snow when moisture laden areas of low pressure from the west move into cold high pressure thats come from the east. As said very cold tends to be dry
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The last three days have been down to minus 10c on the summit of Cairngorm and it has been snowing.
But is minus 10 ‘cold’ ?
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You know it makes sense.
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Snowfall can occur from +7c to -70c.
Colder air = drier air = less moisture.
Warmer air = wetter air = more moisture.
If 0c (air) can hold 100% moisture, then -15c can hold 25% moisture, -30c is 1% moisture, while -70c is close to 0% moisture.
The optimal air temperature for snowfall is around -10c.
Light, dry, and fluffy flakes.
Pow nirvana.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It can be "too cold to snow" here in Seattle (~47°N). In winter it really can't get below about 25f or so unless it is clear. And if it is clear, obviously it can't snow. So the sentiment is accurate, if put somewhat inaccurately.
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Poster: A snowHead
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When I read the question it says haute savoie, so the answer is no.
Might be dry more often when very cold, or it might be too cold for perfect crystals, the answer is still no….even going back to deepest ice age temps were typically only 10c lower than today, so it wouldn’t be remotely too cold for snow
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Several replis touch in the reason for the apparent correlation - extended cold spells are commonly a result of relatively static high pressure zones which mean little cloud formation. No clouds, no snow.
But many people here will have first-hand experience of the opposite, when you're stuck on a stopped chairlift in a howling blizzard at -20C there is no question of 'too cold to snow'.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Chaletbeauroc, I think that's rather the nail on the head. As obvs given, so many obvious & easy counter examples, the answer is no. Although often it seems like it doesn't snow so much (around here) when it's really cold - c.f. @Scooter in Seattle's comments and teh varied ones regarding prevailing weather patterns, etc.
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It’s not in the spirit of Snowheads that it is deemed and almost there but stapled that it’s “ to cold to snow” They don’t know snowheads and there’s no such thing as to cold to snow.
Separately on the joke thread where someone begin in with T that I Disavole mentioned for points the moustache man! Him there Him T was frivulius to extinguish plot that had a word on the game but never hit the mark. Ha ha, hit the mark that’s brainwashing for people that have substance in present but not in conker. The golden word, Conker. To space and Conker.
Knock knock
Who’s there?
Sigmund.
Sigmund who?
Gayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy which is there right.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's English, Jim, but not as we know it. Always makes me laugh, but sometimes I'd really like to understand WTF he was on about.
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@Chaletbeauroc, I'd like to know what he's on!
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@Scooter in Seattle, To avoid it, I assume?
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@Chaletbeauroc, pleased it makes someone laugh... I think this is what a poorly trained small language model running on an original Sinclair ZX-80 with half its processor melted produces.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@under a new name, I think that's an insult to Sir Clive's finest, TBH.
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Has anybody tried using AI to come up with a whitegold quote?
Might be interesting to see which one made most sense. 
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