 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
I was hoping to get some advice, as I'm looking to buy a shell jacket for an upcoming ski trip. I'm going to Alpe D'Huez in February, and I've been trying to find a jacket for the occasion. I've a few questions that maybe you can help with:
I will be wearing bib pants, do I still need a powder skirt? I see a number of high end jackets without them, I would have thought it was a necessary feature, keeping snow out is definitely a top priority for me, and I'm learning to ski on this trip, so will inevitably be hitting the deck a lot!
Will I be ok with a base layer, mid layer fleece and a shell in early Feb? I see a lot of people wear insulated jackets under a shell, I feel like that might be too much?
In terms of fit, are any of these ski jackets wearable day to day, with jeans etc., or should I just consider it as a jacket for the snow exclusively? This would likely impact how much I'm willing to pay
I've been looking at stuff like the Arc'teryx Sabre and Rush, Peak Performance Alpine and other models, I had ordered a HH Garibaldi Infinity, but sent it back as I didn't like the colour. Are the more pricey options really worth the cost? I don't mind spending good money on one, as long as it's going to keep me bone dry and appropriately warm/cool! It would be nice to be able to wear it outside of this trip too, if it's going to be expensive. There is a very limited selection of ski gear where I live, so I can't really try anything on to see what suits me.
Any jacket recommendations based on the above, and general advice/tips are welcomed, cheers!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi and welcome 
| Quote: |
| I will be wearing bib pants, do I still need a powder skirt? I see a number of high end jackets without them, I would have thought it was a necessary feature, keeping snow out is definitely a top priority for me, and I'm learning to ski on this trip, so will inevitably be hitting the deck a lot! |
With bib pants, a snow skirt is less important. However, as a beginner, you may well end up spending a lot  of time in the snow, so it's not a bad idea to have one. The other thing to consider is that most dedicated ski jackets do come with snow skirts, so if they don't, then the jacket may be being sold as a rain jacket and missing other ski features, such as a lift pass pocket. However, there's not a huge difference, so it comes down to cost and personal choice really.
| Quote: |
| Will I be ok with a base layer, mid layer fleece and a shell in early Feb? I see a lot of people wear insulated jackets under a shell, I feel like that might be too much? |
Probably, but if it gets cold you might want an extra insulation layer available – another fleece, lightweight down jacket, synthetic insulated jacket or similar. Beginners tend to work quite hard, so you may stay warm naturally, but there can also be a lot of standing around. Make sure you have nice warm gloves/mittens, and maybe a spare pair for if they get wet. Cold hands are miserable.
| Quote: |
| In terms of fit, are any of these ski jackets wearable day to day, with jeans etc., or should I just consider it as a jacket for the snow exclusively? This would likely impact how much I'm willing to pay |
Ski shell jackets can make good rain coats. They also have a practical number of pockets, and the snow skirts often zip out to make them less “ski wear”. If you're self-conscious, just consider the style – it's hard to go wrong with a plain colour. You've listed some pretty high-end brands there, but you can get good jackets for much less. Have a look at sportpursuit.com – they normally have some Sweet Protection, Helly Hansen, Marmot, Salomon etc. and also the Norrona outlet on their own website often has good deals.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arc'terx and Peak Performance are decent brands.
Depending on where you are from, the secret is to go for decent brands at discount prices from the likes of TK Maxx, Glisshop, Ekosport, Decathlon and Sport Pursuit.
IMV. If you are going for a Shell, you would be advised to get an insulated layer for under the Jacket, which can be worn if the weather turns cold.
Get a colour that you are happy to wear casually.
BTW. Welcome to the mayhem.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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- powder skirts not really necessary IMO
- layering is a personal thing really. If you are learning, you'll probably be working hard and getting hot
- depends what look you're after 
- those jackets you have listed are very good but pricey. I have just retired a Peak Performance Alpine jacket after 10 years or so pretty heavy use. That means out in all (and I mean all) conditions, doing quite challenging skiing, using ropes, climbing over rocks etc. It handled all that very well, but ask yourself if you really need that level of performance? If the weather turns bad, will you stay out no matter what, or will you head for a cafe and a hot chocolate? Both legitimate things to do but require different things from your jacket
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi @Blacky, is it your very first time on the slopes? In case you do not like the experience, maybe purchasing a very expensive top of the range jacket is an overkill.
When I was learning to ski I did not have a powder skirt and I do not think I miss it because I was not skiing off-piste, so there was not much risk of a lot of powder getting to my back/belly. In any case, most dedicated ski jackets come with a powder skirt, but most people do not ever use it anyway.
Ski jackets are usually quite long to give additional protection to your bum. A shell will usually have a very generous fit to allow for layering and an unobstructed range of movement. That is especially the case for Gore-Tex jackets because they are not stretchy. I used to have a Mammut Stoney HS shell and, because the membrane was different, the fabric had a lot of stretch and the fit was trimmer. In any case, I never wore it if not on the slopes.
Some options to save some $$$ is to avoid Gore-Tex and go for another membrane (I have an Arc'teryx Sabre AR jacket with Gore-Tex now but I never had any issues with other membranes in the past). Or also to get an insulated shell, because the 2L construction is way cheaper than the 3L of shell-only jackets. I prefer non insulated shells because I ski until end of April and then I go with a lightweight fleece as mid-layer instead of melting inside a jacket with heavier insulation.
Early Feb is usually cold in the Alps, so insulated jackets are quite a good option. Technical insulation on these jackets is usually not the warmest and heaviest because you are still moving when using them, so it is not too much for February (unless you are skinning). In any case, a midweight fleece or even a midweight fleece on top of a lightweight one should be OK.
I have to admit I started skiing with a waterproof hiking jacket. The extra options of a specific ski jacket are great and I would totally recommend this, but I could do with the other one plus an insulated jacket. Also there are many brands with cheaper jackets than Arc'teryx (almost all the other brands I would say), so you can for sure find something more affordable. The Arc'teryx Rush in particular is more for backcountry skiing.
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As others said, if you are learning and working hard and getting hot, probably a midweight fleece that is more breathable than a down or synthetic insulation jacket should do.
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Thank you all for the various helpful bits of info! To answer some questions, it is my first time skiing, but I've snowboarded before, last time was 6/7 years ago. I did that with an insulated Oakley snowboarding jacket with a powder skirt, and Oakley trousers that attached to the skirt too, so I definitely don't want to end up in a worse position than that, in terms of being vulnerable to a snowy back 
It's a fair point re: what level of performance do I really need, I always tend to overshoot to avoid being let down by something, and from many experiences of buy price = buy twice in the past. The jackets I mentioned above fit my criteria of being stylish and non-ski specific enough in their look to possibly wear as a raincoat around town, while also providing top level performance. If I can replace a raincoat with this jacket, then I don't mind spending more, as I'm getting 2 for 1. I've also gotten quite cheap bib pants, so I've left some room in the budget for a fancier jacket. I was going to wait until January also before buying, to see if there are January sales on any of the sites.
I will definitely be running hot, as I will be trying to progress as quickly as I can in the short time I have, so I feel like an insulated mid layer might be overkill.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 16-12-22 17:07; edited 1 time in total
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Then you have the experience already! I think though that your back will be safer in terms of snow protection when skiing than when snowboarding, but I would get it anyway with the snow skirt if you guess that you will like the sport and might go off-piste in the future.
The fleece as a midlayer should be OK then.
I find the Sabre quite baggy to wear it around town, but I usually go for slim fit when not skiing, so your case might be different.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| etsius wrote: |
Then you have the experience already! I think though that your back will be safer in terms of snow protection when skiing than when snowboarding, but I would get it anyway with the snow skirt if you guess that you will like the sport and might go off-piste in the future.
The fleece as a midlayer should be OK then.
I find the Sabre quite baggy to wear it around town, but I usually go for slim fit when not skiing, so your case might be different. |
Thanks for the info, this will hopefully be the beginning of regular trips for skiing! Do you think buying the smaller size in the Sabre would help with this(I am in between M and L according to their site measurements), or it's moreso the fit of the jacket that makes it look this way?
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If you want something a bit more fitted look at mountaineering jackets. Ski jackets (esp free ride type jackets) tend to be a bit baggy
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Arno wrote: |
| If you want something a bit more fitted look at mountaineering jackets. Ski jackets (esp free ride type jackets) tend to be a bit baggy |
This is kind of what I was getting at with my question about snow skirts, as I could probably expand my search if I didn't really need one. Non ski/snowboard jackets would have issues with hood/helmet compatibility though, or is that wrong?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I dunno- some people think snow skirts are absolutely necessary. I don’t
I have a huge head so I’ve never found a jacket with a hood which really works with a helmet. Most mountaineering jackets will be made to go over a mountaineering helmet and often be suitable for ski touring so will be ok for ski helmets
Also, different manufacturers have different fits. Eg Norrona jackets are relatively slim fitting IME
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Regarding the Sabre, it’s about the fit. Sizing down felt a bit restrictive for me so I just got the jacket on my size.
The helmet compatibility is actually a good point when the weather gets really bad. Maybe mountaineering jackets could be an option because they also use helmets, but I ignore if they are similar to ski helmets. Less baggy means also less space to stack stuff on your pockets.
As@Arno, pointed out, Norrona offers slimmer cuts and their jackets are also top notch.
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You know it makes sense.
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When I first went skiing, partly because I wasn't convinced I would ever go again, I bought the cheapest available salopettes and used the waterproof shell jacket I already had for walking/cycling/pretty much outdoor activity. Worked fine with a fleece and other layers beneath. I did fall over a lot though and occasionally a tiny bit of snow managed to get up to the top of the salopettes, but not so much as to create problems.
I kept on with the same strategy afterwards. There was one point where I happened to buy a shell that included a zip-in snow skirt so I did use that when skiing but didn't feel it made a massive difference. The biggest benefit of that jacket was a hood that was designed to go over a helmet (I assume it was designed for mountaineering use) which was really good on a trip to La Rosiere where one particular very slow chair lift seemed to have been positioned to expose you to a chilly gale funnelling through the Petit St Bernard pass.
Last year I finally bought a jacket sold for skiing, and wore it a couple times and it was OK but no better than the shell. When I went skiing at Easter I reverted to using a shell to make it easier to adjust insulation levels. However that ski jacket has proved brilliant back in the UK with the cold weather we have at the moment, ideal to slip over indoor clothes (jeans and sweatshirt) for a quick trip to the shops.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Most people spend considerably less time on the floor learning to ski than snowboard. Personally, I don't think powder skirt is necessary. Base layer, fleece, and shell is warm enough for most conditions. If it's extra cold just throw on any extra layer - even a (god forbid) cotton long sleeve t-shirt or regular sweatshirt. I wouldn't bother buying something new specifically for it.
As others have said you are looking at top of the line jackets. If budget is of concern, why not. But honestly they are overkill. You can get a perfectly good decathlon jacket for £80 with great specs, also the carbon grey colour scheme can definitely be worn day to day https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/women-s-waterproof-mountain-walking-jacket-mh500/_/R-p-307383?mc=8544336&c=OCHRE
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Poster: A snowHead
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^ +1
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nah, you don't need a powder skirt. I ride a lot in deep powder, so I don't fall over in it, so I don't need a skirt. Beginners would probably fall over in the stuff, but they're not likely to find that much, and a well fitted jacket's more likely to result in powder down your neck than up your jacket. I think Volcom have the patent on jackets which zip to pants... which sounds like a great idea until that powder which gets in around your neck travels all the way down to your boots. I think it's another attempt to solve a problem which doesn't exist, or which is best left unsolved. You do want decent cuff systems which work with whatever style of gloves you use.
With the fancy jackets, they all do the job. They have slightly different "gizmos" in their design, but they all work. I buy on fit, nothing else matters much.
As someone said: it's all about fit. I have a terrible time these days getting slim enough gear, with most brands catering for obese people instead. It's a massive challenge finding things built for athletic people, which seems ass-backwards, what with this being a sport and all. I've found Icelandic brand 66 North is cut for non-obese people; Norrona has a similar reputation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes - I'd agree with those above who say that learning to ski on piste you really don't need a snowskirt - so expand your choice! T K Maxx is always hit and miss, but if you get there on the right day, there are some bargains. I have found the fit of jackets so different that I'd never wear without trying on - particularly true of neck/hood fitting. I ordered a Haglofs shell from Cotswold Outdoors but when I tried it on in the shop it was so skinny round the arms/shoulders that there was no room for a fleece underneath. It looked great, but I had to turn it down. Generally Haglofs seem to be slim fitting (and I'm by no means fat).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| T K Maxx is always hit and miss, but if you get there on the right day, there are some bargains. |
Their best choice is online and generally at a price that allows free delivery. If it doesn't suit, just chuck it back into any TK Maxx store for a full refund.
Mind you, this year there seems to be less choice of decent stuff you'd actually wear and the prices are higher. There are some Peak Performance Shells - though they're quite expensive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have a Patagonia powder owl jacket and it is slim fit. Also my Fenix jacket with insulation is great.
The Fenix is normally £700 but I got it in Tkmaxx for £129 worth’s check there.
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The powder skirts main usefulness is to reduce the cold draughts coming from the bottom of the jacket
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@tangowaggon, not a thing I have ever experienced. Most jackets have draw strings ...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I ski in the arcteryx sabre and really like the jacket. But (1) don’t think a snow skirt is essential (2 ) even less so with bib pant (3) you need layers to keep warm if wearing a shell (4j consider a good outdoor jacket for example arcteryx beta you will get more wear out of - really depends whether you are going to be skiiing every year (5) the fjern waterproof jackets on sport pursuit for £140 are excellent shell jackets for the money albeit they aren’t skiing specific. . I like arcteryx stuff but have generally picked up at good prices and wouldn’t be paying the circa 500-600 current price. Look on sport pursuit they have a good range of discounted jackets.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 17-12-22 13:48; edited 1 time in total
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| dan100 wrote: |
| I ski in the arcteryx sabre and really lick the jacket.. |
That’s what I call brand loyalty. Almost as good as Apple customers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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More important than a snow skirt is a shoulder or wrist pocket to store your lift pass.
For warmth I find the best and most flexible solution is a good quality (doesn’t have to be thick) base layer and a choice of mid layers. Mid layers are often made of Polartec with a choice of 100, 200 or 300. I use a North Face polartec 300 mid layer for very cold weather and 200 if its not so cold or I am working hard
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| AL9000 wrote: |
| dan100 wrote: |
| I ski in the arcteryx sabre and really lick the jacket.. |
That’s what I call brand loyalty. Almost as good as Apple customers. |
Teach me to post w/o wearing glasses
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@On the rocks, on the grounds that it's only in the last 3 out of 52 ski years that I've had a pocket on my shoulder for a lift pass, I think it's only a nice to have ...
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You know it makes sense.
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A snow skirt is a nice to have but not a requirement.
However do not underestimate the importance of a lift pass pocket on the arm. It might sound silly, but having to do some kind of odd looking shuffle to lift your hip up high enough to scan the pass or dig around for it with gloves on is a right PITA.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I just wear a flannel shirt or mid layer 90% of the time. Hard shell stays in my pack for the odd occasion I actually need to wear something that keeps weather out. I reckon that’s 10% of the time max for me.
Imv unless you’re regularly in foul weather (and most people don’t ski or ride in sideways snow) or need a bit of back country insurance it’s the most over rated over featured bit of equipment most people have. Spend the money on shiny stuff to stick on your feet, energy bars and helicopter rides.
A decent selection of mid/outer layers and any old waterproof breathable shell jacket for the odd time it’s actually needed will work fine. The odd snow wedgie isn’t going to be life threatening.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
However do not underestimate the importance of a lift pass pocket on the arm.
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Most shells have a chest pocket, which works perfectly fine as a place to put your lift pass.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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crikey, @hang11, it must be mild in NZ 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If you want what's possibly the best hardshell available (arguably!) then go for a Jottnar Hodr...
Not cheap, but bombproof and doubles as a serious mountain waterproof as well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@hang11, well you know what the Canadians say...
"cotton'll kill ya"
Just quoting 
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@under a new name, I think Kiwis just don't feel the cold
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GearGenie
GearGenie
Guest
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Honestly, I don't think it's worth shelling out for the super-expensive brands, unless you're sure you'll head into technical situations. For most resort-skiing, it's not necessary imo. I'd go with a brand like Montec, that make decent gear for a really good price, like the Montec Dune which has 20k waterproofing/breathability, all the expected features including a snow skirt and looks good enough to wear as a regular jacket: https://www.montecwear.com/dune-ski-jacket-men-blue-steel
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| GearGenie wrote: |
| Honestly, I don't think it's worth shelling out for the super-expensive brands, unless you're sure you'll head into technical situations. For most resort-skiing, it's not necessary imo. I'd go with a brand like Montec, that make decent gear for a really good price, like the Montec Dune which has 20k waterproofing/breathability, all the expected features including a snow skirt and looks good enough to wear as a regular jacket: https://www.montecwear.com/dune-ski-jacket-men-blue-steel |
Didn’t Monty Python do a song about SPAM too………..
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FAQ
