 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anyone know if you can do a group ski safari or guided itinerary in St Anton?
Don't need it to be with a proper "ski guide / instructor". Just want someone who knows the resort and can lead me / us on a tour of the resort pistes, so I don't need to look at the piste map. Kind of like a walking tour around a city. Any seasonaire could probably do this!
A bit like when you stay at an AirBNB and there are all these experiences led by locals. Usually quite cheap! I want one of those for a ski resort.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| TheStreetKid wrote: |
Does anyone know if you can do a group ski safari or guided itinerary in St Anton?
Don't need it to be with a proper "ski guide / instructor". Just want someone who knows the resort and can lead me / us on a tour of the resort pistes, so I don't need to look at the piste map. Kind of like a walking tour around a city. Any seasonaire could probably do this!
A bit like when you stay at an AirBNB and there are all these experiences led by locals. Usually quite cheap! I want one of those for a ski resort. |
I'm nor well up on Austrian law (so this is all subject to it being similar to other countries') but this sort of service used to form the core of the services offered by SCGB, by unpaid volunteers, who have now caved in under pressure from the ESF and others and no longer do this anywhere, finding it impossible to fight the 'unpaid' corner, and therefore being subject to all the requirements that apply to any other professional. Similarly, the Ski Guiding offered by any chalet operators in years gone by has now all but disappeared.
I still take out my own guests sometimes, but only on the basis of a group of mates skiing together, sort of thing, and in no way do I offer this as a service or as part of an apartment rental, nor indeed as an AirBNB 'experience' which would be deemed a paid service. I'm still subject to restrictions, particularly wrt off-piste skiing on Switzerland, given my status as a ski 'professional' (even if it's only as a part-time instructor) who doesn't hold the brevet, and could be deemed responsible in the event of an accident in an area I shouldn't have been taking people, for example.
So in essence anyone bar a proper instructor or guide who's charging you for this, or offering it as a service, is probably doing so outside the letter of the law, so I doubt if you're going to find it except by word of mouth within a resort.
I'm more than happy to be corrected if Austria is not so rigid, my comments should be broadly correct when applying to France and Switzerland, though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have not seen or heard of such a thing in St Anton. That does not mean that it might not be happening informally, but how do you hook into that? It is probably one of those “if you know, you know” situations.
Best bet would be a group lesson or, if you are part of a group, to hire a privat instructor from the ski school.
St Anton is relatively easy to navigate… if you get a few clear, sunny days after arrival! I bet most would find it a significant challenge if you arrive in poor light conditions.
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Maybe exists in some format on the black but essentially this is bread and butter for what ski schools do. St Anton isn't that complicated* and generally only has a couple of pisted ways you can go from the top of any lift so why not teach yourself to navigate?
* Except if you're totally whited out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Maybe exists in some format on the black but essentially this is bread and butter for what ski schools do. St Anton isn't that complicated* and generally only has a couple of pisted ways you can go from the top of any lift so why not teach yourself to navigate?
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Having done SCGB leading for a couple of decades, I learnt to appreciate that what people are looking for is not simply someone who knows what lift to use, but local knowledge of where will be good, which lifts will have queues at what time, which restaurants to use (to book, if necessary) and all sorts of little things that can transform a day out into something really special.
I was very disappointed when they stopped doing it, first in France, then everywhere, including on Freshtracks holidays, except that they suggested that you'd go out "Social Skiing" with your groups. To me, as a 'professional' here in CH, it simply sounded like a cop-out, expecting leaders to do the same job, with the same risks re liability etc. but without any backup from the club in the event of a problem. So we're no longer reps, no longer even members, since that, for me, was what it was all about.
A sad day, and I can see why people like the OP are looking for something to take its place, but as I said I don't think they're likely to find it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
what people are looking for is not simply someone who knows what lift to use, but local knowledge of where will be good, which lifts will have queues at what time, which restaurants to use (to book, if necessary) and all sorts of little things that can transform a day out into something really special.
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Nailed it. That's exactly what I'm looking for. It's not that I can't navigate or read a map!
But it sounds like this sort of thing is no longer available. I've done it lots before when staying in chalets with mixed groups, so I'm sad to hear it's now a thing of the past.
Thank you for all the comments though.
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@TheStreetKid, I get that. It is knowledge we have developed over 19 seasons, it will be 20 in 6 weeks time, and from skiing with our StA friends. It is something I would love to pass on, and have done snippets on various blog postings, but have not found a really satisfactory way. I am not keen on getting into guiding: my Wife and I are very much “follow our noses and see where it takes on any given day” skiers.
If you have any specific questions, post them, and I, or many of the other StA regulars here, will do our best to answer.
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@TheStreetKid, the St Anton thread often has useful information (or at least when there isnt a pointless argument going on) and looking through previous seasons threads is possibly useful too. There are a number of online guides if you look for them. A few pointers which might be useful.
It is not just St Anton but the Arlberg ski area, missing out Lech/Zürs (and Warth) means missing 50% of the skiing. It is now linked by lift - Flexenbahn but for a quick start in the mornings get the bus (around 08:40) from St Anton to Zürs, quicker and more pleasant than joining the queue at Galzig.
Many of the best "runs" in the Arlberg are not pistes but "ski routes" some of these are steep mogul fields suitable only for experienced capable skiers but some eg Schindlerkar in St Anton, Madloch from Zürs to Lech are pretty much pistes (they are partly prepared) and usually have the best skiing & snow. The routes marked with red dashes on the piste map are generally within the capabilities of reasonably competent skiers in decent snow conditions, though the Osthang mogul field under the Galzig lift is pretty steep though short.
The return pistes to St Anton are limited so get very busy in the afternoons. If you can manage it the Kandahar black run is often more pleasant than the crowds on the Steissbachtal blue run, everyone ends up on the blue after a while but when you get to the point where the Galzig cable car crosses (bottom of the Osthang mogul field) look to your right near a service building and a path goes through the trees much more pleasant than the crowds floundering in piles of soft snow.
The path brings you out near the main apres spots, which are dotted around a hundred metres or so above the village. Krazy Kangaruh, Taps, Griabli and Mooserwirt (the path bypasses another couple of places Sennhütte & Heustadl). KK & Mooser are the best known. Be careful with you skis they regularly disappear (Mooser has a ski "cloakroom" at the side worth the €3 to make sure you keep your skis). Lots of booze fuelled revelry but you still have to ski down. This has been the cause of many accidents (especially in the dark!). Best to take it easy or if you get a bit carried away you can get taxis back from Mooser (not cheap but better than ending up in hospital). There is also Base Camp near the Galzig lifts, no need to ski down afterwards. There are a couple of bars etc near the Nassereinbahn but all pretty quiet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It is indeed a pity that this sort of thing is no longer available - we had some great times with chalet ski guides (not that they were all equally great, of course). I did a great deal of it when friends and family stayed in our apartment in France - because I knew the place, and the restaurants, and because it made for a good sociable day out. I've also much enjoyed being "guided" by fellow Snowheads on some of the "bashes" - including some with brilliant knowledge of the (to me) baffling Superski Dolomiti area.
The opportunity to take part in those sorts of outings, at different levels of ski expertise, has to be one of the main selling points of a Snowheads Bash.
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Doesn’t @stanton offer this type of service in exchange for a Bratwurst and Radler?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
The opportunity to take part in those sorts of outings, at different levels of ski expertise, has to be one of the main selling points of a Snowheads Bash. |
Is there any organisation around non-instruction ski groups, who's leading whom on what sort of plan for the day, sort of thing? Like we used to offer on SCGB holidays?
I used to really enjoy leading them, not only for the free (to us) holiday but the satisfaction of leading a group on a great day out skiing, every day.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@BobinCH, only if you want to see the sights of Zürich 
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
St Anton is relatively easy to navigate… |
Not when you see the masses going down the Galzig-Kandahar.
That single blue track going down from Galzig into Happy Valley is still very hard to find for many 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
St Anton is relatively easy to navigate… |
Not when you see the masses going down the Galzig-Kandahar.
That single blue track going down from Galzig into Happy Valley is still very hard to find for many |
Especially when it's closed for the secret reason only our Dutch cab driver is allowed to know.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
St Anton is relatively easy to navigate… |
Not when you see the masses going down the Galzig-Kandahar.
That single blue track going down from Galzig into Happy Valley is still very hard to find for many |
I said “navigate”, not “ski”.
Kandahar is a PITA in the afternoon. Moguls with scraped ice in between. People struggling to handle it, spearing off in unpredictable directions. If you are a half-way decent off piste skier, then Bachseite offers a much more pleasant way down to Steissbachtal, or Zwischen, which bypasses Steissbachtal altogether.
Yes, in a whiteout, getting from the Galzig to the blue that takes you from Tanzböden to Steissbachtal can be very difficult to navigate. I have several waypoints, eg the fence at the bottom of the playground, that I use to help maintain direction to Tanzbödenbahn. Conversely, on a clear day, when you can see the whole planet from the Galzig, it is fairly straightforward - check the map outside the Galzig top-station, memorise a few piste numbers, and you should be good. It is unlikely you will accidentally drop into Osthang Einfahrt, Kandahar, or do an unintentional lap of Tanzböden.
On the Kapall/Gampen, there is the possibility of going down a piste that takes you to the unintended end of StA, but is that such a huge drama? It will be very obvious where you are when you get in sight of the village. You cannot miss the village - there is no way to ski around it. Just do the “baby lift shuffle” to work your way to the other end.
On a clear day, you can see almost all of Rendl, Stuben, Zürs, or Lech, or the way back to their respective bases, from most points on the pistes. We found Warth a bit more tricky, but after a few visits, we soon learned the names of the key lifts and the gotcha’s.
As I said originally, on a clear day, navigation is relatively easy. On a whiteout day, it can be a serious challenge because so much of the skiing is above the tree line. Experience helps heaps, but even I, after 19 seasons, sometimes lose spatial awareness and finish up on an unintended path.
It is knowing the other things that people have mentioned that can make a big difference to the overall enjoyment of the holiday, eg knowing where/when queues or crowds will form, where the best snow is likely to be found, runs to avoid in certain conditions/times, places to eat, etc. For that, there is little substitute for experience or an experienced guide. There is obviously a demand for the latter, but short of being friends with an experienced local, or being able to afford several days with a privat, it does not exist AFAIK.
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Poster: A snowHead
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We did a Sunday "Area Check" in Lech. Well worth it. I would assume they had the same over in St. Anton? We ended up just the 2 of us with a guide. It was all on piste until I exited at which point my daughter got a whirlwind tour of off piste.
I poked around a bit, could not find an equivalent at St. Anton!!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 15-11-22 22:41; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I believe it could have been Der Weisse Ring route with embellishments done by a young guy happy with a companion who could keep up.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thank you very much for all the information.
Another reason for my original post is that I am looking for some company on the slopes, as I'll be skiing solo. I figured this sort of group activity would have been good for that. But completely understand it's no longer available.
The area check in Lech sounds great but sadly there won't be one during my ski days.
This will be my 4th time skiing in St Anton, and I'm really looking forward to going back.
As I'm new to this forum, a couple more questions:
1. Where can I find the St Anton thread that's been mentioned? Keen to see the guides / itineraries.
2. Is there anything on here where people post that they are looking for buddies for that day or the next perhaps?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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