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Seeking an alternative to Verbier (WFH)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello!

Over the past few years we have been coming to Verbier for the last three weeks of January and then sometimes coming back again for the first two weeks of March.
This accomplishes getting away from school holidays.

Wife & I are US based and work on US EDT Time zone which means we are +6 hours when in Alps and it's perfect for us to ski from 8:30AM - 1/2PM and then work until late night.

Things we have loved about Verbier are: accommodations, beauty of village, variety of terrain.

What is really important to us is having Verbier style accommodations, and what I mean by that are chalet style near the end of piste so the return home is an unclip and 5 min walk to chalet. Not having this style of accommodation was a major turn-off when going to Zermatt as it's important that we can get back from piste quickly to begin working.

We are getting bored of Verbier as although 4 Valle is HUGE, we are only able to do Verbier on the weekdays of the four as going far out and coming back by 2PM would not be fun at all. So the actual skiable KM for us is much smaller.

I have an assumption, and I would love to be corrected, that the Dolomiti Superski area would not be suitable for us especially for that reason because we need to be back by 1/2PM to begin working. Looking at piste map there's a lot of KM but not that much if you need to stay in your own "area"

Style:
On-Piste: Advanced-Expert
Off-Piste: Intermediate
75% On Piste riding, 25% off-piste. Prefer piste riding to not be bumpy.

Things that are a must:

1. Chalet style accommodations, not hotel.
2. Easily accessible major vertical (like long runs)
3. Easily accessible large KM so we can ski varying terrain and still be able to get back by 1/2
4. Avoiding villages with notoriously poor WiFi. (Some french villages are culprits here)
5. Nice on-mountain lunch fare - not just super rustic. Although I haven't ever seen anywhere in alps with bad food.
6. Huge added bonus is skiiable terrain with tree coverage in case of poor visibility weather. Verbier has Bruson

I've read countless threads, countless reviews, countless ratings pages, etc. Head is spinning and would love some one that's well travelled to check out our criteria to see if some light bulb pops off right away.

Thank you everyone for your time and sorry for lurking for so long.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@whitematterbull, nice question! And welcome to SHs.

First thought is that anywhere other than CH you might need to be careful wrt wifi. We live in Chamonix, a year round functional (?) town of 12,000 people. Domestic ADSL, on the whole, is appalling - although fibre is being rolled out over the next couple of years.

Location? Know very little about the Dolomites but in terms of types of terrain my impression is that the Dolomites are rather more reliant on snow making than Verbier is (??).

My first thought for wide, good powder chance, steep skiing with available - if expensive, but not vs Verbs? slopeside accommodation would be Val d’Isere …
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@whitematterbull, Welcome sorry I can't help you but if I may hijack you thread for one question then hopefully we will get back to finding you accommodation,
@under a new name, Very QQ, our chalet has had a fiber core run into the basement for your own provider to connect to but I have no idea what providers in the Chamonix valley provide fiber broadband & my French is shockingly bad, the Co-op are being French about it with no help, would you happen to know of any provider's?

OK Folks back to OP question,
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@Jonny996, dm imminent Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Paradiski might fit what you are looking for
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@whitematterbull, Waves from Morgins. Pretty sure we meet all your criteria, pretty village, old chalet accommodation well modernised, five minutes from piste, acres of terrain, easy access to the rest of the Portes du Soleil, plenty of restaurant choices. Check it out (link in my sig).
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
under a new name wrote:
@Jonny996, dm imminent Happy
Interested as well, similar situation.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Lech and St.Anton would fit most of your demands.
But chalets and availability will be difficult. Although this coming season availability will be better due to the energy crisis.
For chalets, France and Switzerland (west) are best
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@whitematterbull, Val d’Isere and 3V strike me as your best bets to hit those criteria. Courchevel 1850 has nice piste skiing and options to La Tania and Le Praz in bad weather. Mottaret better positioned for travelling in both directions although Meribel probably better for chalets and atmosphere. VT and Tignes are both great high mileage skiing bases but not chalet chic.

Or stay in Verbier and focus on progressing your off piste skills!
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Another vote for 3V, V d'I and PdS. In skiing terms the first two are well ahead of the latter but the latter might be better for your infrastructure. I've no evidence to base this on but suspect strongly that Morzine would have better internet connectivity than anywhere in 3V or V d'I. They all have chalet style accommodation and all have ski in ski out options.
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@whitematterbull,
Any of the three Tarentaise mega ski-areas would all tick your skiing boxes - 3 Valleys, Paradiski, Espace Killy. They ate all close together, so days out somewhere different are doable, plus the smaller resorts of Site Foy & La Rossiere.
Regarding internet strength I"d recommend asking on the relevant resort thread in the Snow Report forum - plenty people post on those who have property in resort.
Accommodation style - all three have prettier and purpose built areas. The latter tend to be more convenient for the slopes. Judicious use of resort web cams may be your friend there.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@whitematterbull,
You didn't mention some important points- how would you be travelling to resort; what form of catering (self-catered, bed & breakfast, half board, full board); your budget?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thank You everyone. Kind of confirming what I had thought. Stay away from IT unless snowsure and be very careful in FR due to WiFi.

Will be looking heavily at 3 Valleys & Paradiski - both seems like good options. I will be looking at Piste maps and I will likely return with more questions on exact place in both we should stay.

We certainly will not be going away from Verbier forever, just a change of scenery would be nice!

For travel, it doesn't matter - we usually have a car for flexibility. We self-cater as we like to stay in a chalets in a 2bdr apt. Budget - well it seems like we are typically paying 350-400/night for something close, very comfortable, with space and nice view.

Really appreciate everyone's input so far!!!!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@whitematterbull, How fast an internet connection do you need? A French SIM card with a large monthly data quota isn't very expensive.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
It's the ping typically on the boxes or sim mi-fi devices that kill us, not the speed. Wired connections into apartment to router are typically less then 50ms ping. The sim/mifi variants are typically 300ms+ which is too much.

Good enough for two computers to do video calls at same time, so not too much bandwith is needed, just like 15Mb/s but the ping should be <50ms ideally.

But maybe the internet from sim cards is super reliable and low latency in the mtns? Anyone can comment?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@whitematterbull, I did computer conferencing in a French ski resort last winter just using 3G, but we don't typically use video, just screen sharing and audio.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@whitematterbull, What do you mean by a "chalet" in the UK we tend to consider these as ranging from very high end luxury in Val d'Isere to really pack em in places in Alpe d'huez, but the common theme is that they all offer half board. Apartments are the usual self catering options.

My observations from Arc1600 is that wifi connections are good (about 30mbs) but mobile phone connections are terrible.

My first thoughts were somewhere like the more upmarket apartments in Les Arcs. Arc1950 sounds ideal, but then I read your bit about "75% On Piste riding, 25% off-piste. Prefer piste riding to not be bumpy. " Most blacks in Les Arcs, like France in general, tend to be left to develop naturally and have bumps. My recollection of Verbier was that they had the longest, biggest bump fileds in the world so perhaps Les Arcs will be better than you imagined.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@whitematterbull, My wife and I are also East Coast US based, and also have been doing extended trips to the Alps for the past several years. We tend to travel about a lot more so we've experienced many resorts all over the Alps. It may not help too much, but I concur with many of the others that Meribel or Val d'Isere would suit you very well. Both have extensive piste skiing and both have excellent off piste. We base in Meribel because we have good Swedish friends that live there, but we would be equally happy in Val d'Isere. If you find a nice apartment in either the proper town of Meribel or Val d'Isere you should be very pleased. We have stayed up at Mottaret, but found the apartments to be quite small, and the area to have a fair amount less life than Meribel proper. The Pizzeria du Mottaret and surrounding Front de Neige is definitely worthwhile though. Both Val d'Isere and Meribel are up winter dead end valleys so there is no through traffic, but they are not car free, similar to Verbier, but you do get a feeling of being somewhat removed somewhere nice in the Alps.
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Indeed as mentioned above, given your ski-preferences Verbier actually appears to be a strange choice.
Verbier really is not that great for on-piste/no bumbs.
… So many other great resorts in the Alps for that

I say Lech:
This lovely ski in/out for example:
https://www.lechzuers.com/en/booking/accommodations/LEH/fe2167ce-68ee-4294-a88f-fc668ba7965d/appart-andrea
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I've used a 4G French SIM in a router and happily got 30-40Mbs up and down in Val d'Isere. Perfectly fine for VPNs and Zoom calls with video. Using a router was generally better as you can connect using a network cable rather than wi-fi. At busy times the wi-fi channels can get congested, especially in apartment blocks.
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@whitematterbull
If you’re set up for and used to residence in Switzerland, then I wonder if Champéry might suit? It’s a gateway to the Portes du Soleil, acccessible by train, near to Montreux and Lausanne for city excursions and seems to have a reasonable life of its own as a town. If it’s like the 4 Vallées there should be wired broadband to most accommodation (we get 36Mbps download, wired to our 4V apartment i.e. not a shared WiFi link). However, I’ve only visited Champéry in summer and aren’t sure if you can ski back down into the town itself - perhaps another SnowHead will know?


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 29-09-22 8:17; edited 6 times in total
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@whitematterbull, I must confess, being on my phone, that I hadn't read your OP in detail.

I rather assumed you wanted something Verbier-like because you wanted to access Verbier-like terrain (steep, snowy, off-piste). Verbier is perfectly capable at everything else of course, but its big draw is steep, snowy off piste.

So given your actual, as stated requirements, you could really be looking at any big linked area that happened to offer slope-side accommodation. On which, I don't think you mean a "chalet" as such - as in, not the entirety of an independent house? (Also not to be confused with the now nearly defunct anglophone "chalet-style" organised holiday).

Anyway, back to wifi, I'm currently at the far end of the house from the Bouygues 4G wifi router (about 30m + 1 wooden floor away) and Speedtest is giving me: ping 36ms, down 5.2 MB/s, up 2.8 MB/s. (The 4G box is a significant improvement over the prior copper link, and gaming was a major factor for a while).

So if you need much better than that, I'd still be careful about trying to find somewhere already ftth'ed up.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@whitematterbull, as @Langerzug, has mentioned you should look at the Arlberg. From what I understand of your requirements Lech might be better suited as it has more high end accommodation though St Anton is catching up in that regard (sadly). In recent years everywhere I have stayed has had decent internet connectivity. I have sat in small guest houses streaming live football on my laptop with no issues. Larger more expensive spots will be aiming for those who need to work too so the connectivity will be there. The Lech skiing tends to be more straight forward than that around St Anton though plenty of bumps & steeps if you want them (supposedly the steepest official run in the Alps). Easy to access from Zürich airport. If it is of interest the best thing would be to contact the tourist offices in Lech or St Aton and ask about piste side apartments (in Austria the best place to find accommodation is the local tourist ofice very little is offered on Air BnB etc, they will be very happy to help US visitors).

If you like Switzerland then there are plenty of other places besides Verbier that should offer what you are looking for, for example Wengen and Flims/Laax might be worth a look.
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whitematterbull wrote:
Thank You everyone. Kind of confirming what I had thought. Stay away from IT unless snowsure and be very careful in FR due to WiFi.

Will be looking heavily at 3 Valleys & Paradiski - both seems like good options. I will be looking at Piste maps and I will likely return with more questions on exact place in both we should stay.

We certainly will not be going away from Verbier forever, just a change of scenery would be nice!

For travel, it doesn't matter - we usually have a car for flexibility. We self-cater as we like to stay in a chalets in a 2bdr apt.


3V is more akin to Verbier in my view, in that there's immediately available skiing in wherever you stay but with much more distance to reach outlying areas and giving similar compromise with regard to morning skiing and quick return to work hours.
Paradiski for me holds better balance, specifically Les Arcs as it holds such varied terain within a much smaller radius of accommodation to give balance to that element of your requirements. Architectural balance less so (I'd always favour access highest though) with Arc 1950 a good choice of having immediate in/out convenience. Favourite for these aspect though is Arc 1800 as sits well with access along with very good tree line toward the Piesy section. Any conditions and so much gradient variance available at very short travel from here. Chalet buildings "Alpage d Chantel" and "Chalet Mille 8" at the top of village would be a good starting point to look for accommodation with to door access.

Outlying options:- Sainte Foy (looks quite small but you need to visit to appreciate) offers huge variation of skiing within very compact area. Very, very good food on mountain, unparalleled access to return easily for timeline, easy (not really resricted for car access, parking) with picturesque village and wonderful views. Access by car to les Arcs about 20 mins away via Villaroger, also with one of the best options for lunch right there at ski lift base. Entirely practical to use this sporadically. SF would offer something of that feel you get from Verbier that you like, that just ski back into your home ease with varied ski scope to enjoy.
In the same direction, feel and access wise also in Switzerland, Grimentz as a stunning location and village (search with pictures for both these two options to give you more of a feel) with, again, very close skiing variation at short distance from home.
Both these offer a smaller but absolutely valid choice in accessible ski scope along with great surroundings.
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Quote:

Architectural balance less so

A lot of Arc1600 has the French equivilant of listed building status and architectural tours are arranged on a fairly frequent basis. I gather it is not to everyones taste but interesting nevertheless.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Bear in mind that in general apartments in France are a lot smaller than Switz.
2 beds is not equal to 2 beds.

Verbier is now a 5g place, as is much of Switz, and that make internet stuff super easy.

I would look at a Swiss alternative
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@ski3, SF has really crap internet though! (Looks like 5G may be being installed at the moment). A friend got Starlink as the ADSL was useless.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
johnE wrote:
Quote:

Architectural balance less so

A lot of Arc1600 has the French equivilant of listed building status and architectural tours are arranged on a fairly frequent basis. I gather it is not to everyones taste but interesting nevertheless.


Yes John, I really like all the Arcs (first ever ski trip to 2000) and don't hold with the criticism usually attached to these places in general comment on here. It's more my grammar in that I was trying to indicate, ahem, "contrast" to the OP from their desire to have a traditional type village design. As I indicated though, there's to me virtually unparalleled access to really great ski slopes and possibly to rival most given the ski time constraints.

I really like Flaine too, which appears to go against the grain.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
whitematterbull wrote:
It's the ping typically on the boxes or sim mi-fi devices that kill us, not the speed. Wired connections into apartment to router are typically less then 50ms ping. The sim/mifi variants are typically 300ms+ which is too much.


Really depends on the operator, how many people are using the antennas and where you are wrt to the antenna. I'm currently getting 20 m/s to 8.8.8.8 on SFR Red (low cost version of SFR) but only 3.5 Mbps down. No idea where the antenna is.

I sometimes work at another location with the same router where the ping is incredibly variable, sometimes measured in seconds, at that location I'm 1.2km away line of site and I think the issue is the distance but also too many users. I get somewhat poor zoom meetings.

Having a 5G antenna can also make a difference. Still I'm only paying 10 euros for 200GB per month so can't grumble.

The bottom line is that unless you actually know someone in the same location with the same operator you can't tell for sure. I agree with UNN that the Chamonix 4G was okay for WFH when I spent 2 weeks there last season. 1 in Chamonix center and the other in sud but it was out of season and not many people around.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@LaForet, re: Champery - you can't ski directly to the town itself, you have to get the cable car back down. You can ski down to somewhere close by (Grand Paradis) and get the bus or drive back to Champery but that run isn't always open and is a bit of a cat track that is nice to do once or twice due to the views but you wouldn't want to do it every day (and isn't always open anyway and getting the chairlift down to Grand Paradis is pretty spectacular, much quicker and usually preferred)
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just out of curiosity, what do you do for work which allows you to wfh in CH/EU?
Thanks
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@whitematterbull, Val D'Isere/Tignes worth a look I'd suggest as is the Arlberg.

Be aware that French self catering accom is generally small, so check the sq/m carefully! I was out preseason in Val D'Isere and took an apartment in Santel, which was ski in/out and cracking views in the afternoon. This company were very helpful (and who I booked with), as I also wanted decent Wifi for Netflix in the evenings and work emails etc.

https://www.simplyvaldisere.com/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ryunis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what do you do for work which allows you to wfh in CH/EU?
Thanks

I’d say since the pandemic, just about every other jobs can be done remotely. There’s little difference between my working from my house vs working in the Alps.

It’s the logistic of finding reliable Wi-Fi, suitable lodging etc that I haven’t done exactly the same as the OP.
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@abc, I was told by my UK employer that remote working overseas was not permitted due to work permit regulations and income tax complications.

Can you work on a tourist visa?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
johnE wrote:
@abc, I was told by my UK employer that remote working overseas was not permitted due to work permit regulations and income tax complications.

Can you work on a tourist visa?


I'm in the same boat with my French employer, not even allowed a day over the border in Italy, sack-able offense they say. They do monitor for VPN use outside the country.
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whitematterbull wrote:
It's the ping typically on the boxes or sim mi-fi devices that kill us, not the speed. Wired connections into apartment to router are typically less then 50ms ping. The sim/mifi variants are typically 300ms+ which is too much.

To connect from Europe to the US, there’s the added transatlantic delay on top of whatever switch delays. It’s been some years since I’ve done it, but I recall having similar issues of occasionally the connection timing out due to ping delay. These days, I work for a multinational, so I just log into our corporate access point in the same continent I’m located.

sno trax wrote:
Using a router was generally better as you can connect using a network cable rather than wi-fi. At busy times the wi-fi channels can get congested, especially in apartment blocks.

That’s a bigger problem nowadays. Too many times, typically in morning and evening, I wasn’t able to get on whatever Wi-Fi network the lodging is providing.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
abc wrote:
Ryunis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what do you do for work which allows you to wfh in CH/EU?
Thanks

I’d say since the pandemic, just about every other jobs can be done remotely. There’s little difference between my working from my house vs working in the Alps.

It’s the logistic of finding reliable Wi-Fi, suitable lodging etc that I haven’t done exactly the same as the OP.



Even though things have changed, I still do not know many jobs which would allow you to be completely home based, even less so based in another country.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Some employers here are getting a bit nervous about overseas WFH:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/08/31/executives-working-holiday-homes-fear-tax-crackdown/

I think the concerns are more about UK executives working for months on end in Europe, especially those making decisions (overseas) which could violate their bank's license.

Anyway, don't worry we won't say anything Wink


ETA: here's a non-paywall https://chof360.com/executives-working-from-holiday-homes-fear-tax-crackdown/
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Ryunis wrote:
... Even though things have changed, I still do not know many jobs which would allow you to be completely home based, even less so based in another country.
With technology companies it's not uncommon, at least those run by technology people.

Obviously when the immigration people ask what you're up to, it's "skiing". Which it is.
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phil_w wrote:
Ryunis wrote:
... Even though things have changed, I still do not know many jobs which would allow you to be completely home based, even less so based in another country.
With technology companies it's not uncommon, at least those run by technology people.

Obviously when the immigration people ask what you're up to, it's "skiing". Which it is.

I guess it’s different in the US.

Many office jobs allow working from home full time. In fact, 2 of my (now former) co-workers had accepted offers from company allowing them to work from home full time.

My employer had recently clarified a policy that we can work from both US and Canada, though not full time for extended period. That aside, even before the pandemic, we were allowed to work from across the globe for short period of time (a few weeks). I doubt that would trigger any tax or immigration consequences.

Far worse, I was once offered a job by a US firm to work in London for a year without even bothering to get us work permits. Though we were promised (in writing) had there been any tax consequences, the firm would reimburse the difference.

Incidentally, I’m working in the banking industry.
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