 Poster: A snowHead
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| philwig wrote: |
| My point was in summary that old skool skis didn't require old skool style and many of us knew it, although very few instructors. |
I think if you tried to turn 2m Straight Skis with modern Piste technique - you'd go on your head....so it did require a more Old Skool style. 
IME. Foot steering greatly reduced the need for more pronounced Upward movements....which in Long Turns were actually more Forward and Across movements, than Up movements.
Short Swings could produce Up movements, as the forces generated by the edge check at the end of the turn, sprung you up and into the next turn (provided you kept facing downhill). A pole plant helped with timing and balance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
old skool skis didn't require old skool style and many of us knew it, although very few instructors.
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Doing a BASI course in 1992 -- I can confirm that some did!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ski wrote: |
| Quote: |
old skool skis didn't require old skool style and many of us knew it, although very few instructors.
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Doing a BASI course in 1992 -- I can confirm that some did! |
Respect.
Have you ever witnessed some of these young Whippersnapper Instructors, who have only used Carving Skis, jump on some 2m Straight planks, just to see what happened? 
In 1992, I was skiing in Val D'Isere - staying in La Daille - just before the Winter Olympics. They were building La Face D/Hill course and helicoptering snow up Bellevarde to make the first big jump.
I had organised a small group (Lady F was pregnant with our first child, so wasn't there)...and boasted that I had carefully selected the accommodation as it had a brand new Funicular nearby, to whisk us up Bellevarde in no time at all.....But.... It didn't turn a wheel, as they ended up having to change the propulsion system. Typical!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
jump on some 2m Straight planks, just to see what happened?
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Yup....but... I really don't think ski technique has changed that much, it's just that the equipment (skis that grip, boots that fit and flex) have evolved and so has what we can do with them. I can still enjoy (telemark) skiing on leather boots and skiny skis, but can do much much more with plastic boots and modern (NTN) bindings. Some of the techniques approriate to leather are no longer needed and counterproductive on modern gear, a bit like up-unweighting on alpine skis.
My (then) Alpine BASI 3 (now L2) assesement included "Stem Christies linked by a Refined Traverse" -- Refined meant feet jammed together. Really happy that things have changed!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ski wrote: |
Yup....but... I really don't think ski technique has changed that much, it's just that the equipment (skis that grip, boots that fit and flex) have evolved and so has what we can do with them. I can still enjoy (telemark) skiing on leather boots and skiny skis, but can do much much more with plastic boots and modern (NTN) bindings. Some of the techniques approriate to leather are no longer needed and counterproductive on modern gear, a bit like up-unweighting on alpine skis.
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You can ski Carving Skis Old School; but I don't think you can ski Straight Skis New school.....not surprising really, as one had a radius of 65m and the other, a radius of 14m.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
Have you ever witnessed some of these young Whippersnapper Instructors, who have only used Carving Skis, jump on some 2m Straight planks, just to see what happened?
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Hah. Yes, it would be interesting, but I suspect they wouldn't struggle as much as you might think. All else apart, the short (skidded) turn is all about rotating the skis, i.e. not relying on the carving radius to turn for you, and certainly at BASI L3 it's expected that you can control the turn shape and size independently of what radius skis you're using.
And it's not like the old techniques have really ever been completely replaced; for example I still use (and teach) a basic stem turn, with or without lifting the inner ski to match it, in certain conditions, like the first (and possibly continuing) turn in a steep narrow couloir, where you don't know how much grip you're going to get, and even more on really rotten breakable crust, where the initial snowplough shape gets the outside ski pushing across the snow rather than vertically onto it and thereby drastically reduces the likelihood of breaking through. (Thanks to Phil Smith for that latter trick - one day in La Tania about fifteen years ago, where three of the group, including myself and my wife, got his point almost immediately but the other three kept breaking through, sometimes almost waist deep into the virtual honeycomb beneath the top 10cm of nice snow. Happy days).
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
Have you ever witnessed some of these young Whippersnapper Instructors, who have only used Carving Skis, jump on some 2m Straight planks, just to see what happened?
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Hah. Yes, it would be interesting, but I suspect they wouldn't struggle as much as you might think. All else apart, the short (skidded) turn is all about rotating the skis, i.e. not relying on the carving radius to turn for you, and certainly at BASI L3 it's expected that you can control the turn shape and size independently of what radius skis you're using.
And it's not like the old techniques have really ever been completely replaced; for example I still use (and teach) a basic stem turn, with or without lifting the inner ski to match it, in certain conditions, like the first (and possibly continuing) turn in a steep narrow couloir, where you don't know how much grip you're going to get, and even more on really rotten breakable crust, where the initial snowplough shape gets the outside ski pushing across the snow rather than vertically onto it and thereby drastically reduces the likelihood of breaking through. (Thanks to Phil Smith for that latter trick - one day in La Tania about fifteen years ago, where three of the group, including myself and my wife, got his point almost immediately but the other three kept breaking through, sometimes almost waist deep into the virtual honeycomb beneath the top 10cm of nice snow. Happy days). |
I agree. As Instructors, they wouldn't struggle for that long - as they would feel what was going on and adapt. I was really thinking about the first run or two, where they tried to initiate the turn by tipping the skis on edge....and nothing would happen.
They would certainly appreciate what they currently use after that.
Older techniques are most certainly still relevant - but with modern skis, you can choose to use them. With straight skis, you didn't have any other option.
I remember having a lesson with Dave Cowell in VDI just prior to the introduction of Carving skis.....and some of the techniques that became the norm in modern skiing were starting to be taught. In particular, a wider stance and working the unweighted ski.
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The time I am still conscious of using a sort of bounce is in breakable crust when you want to punch down to break through. Of course if the crust is just a bit thicker you want to do the opposite, flattening the ski and using as little emphasis as possible so you don't break through. When you have ingrained the habit of edging your skis its is surprisingly difficult to flatten them at first.
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