How much does pack weight affect touring?I did very shallow tours in Norway, with a Scott Patrol E2 which is 2.7kg empty! Looks like lightweight non airbag bags are a touch over 1kg empty, so quite a bit lighter.
I used a Litric Zero 27 in Lyngen. It’s less than 2kg. Barely notice the weight.
That's prob the lightest electric avi bag around I reckon?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
How much does pack weight affect touring? I did very shallow tours in Norway, with a Scott Patrol E2 which is 2.7kg empty! Looks like lightweight non airbag bags are a touch over 1kg empty, so quite a bit lighter.
My airbag is 1.3kg heavier than my non-airbag touring bag. I did say when I bought it I had 1.3kg of body weight I could loose to counter... didn't actually action that plan tho! Maybe for next season.
TBH I haven't felt bothered by the extra 1.3kg when touring. You can probably shave off weight in kit elsewhere also - fancy lightweight puffy, lightweight helmet, how much water, how much food, what spares etc. I'd rather have my airbag than a thermos of tea.
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And then when you look at the amount of weight splitboarders seem to carry,
Yeah, have you seen how massive and heavy our board-ski crampons are?!?! Like 2x the size of ski crampons.
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saw three young fit looking boarders climbing on Sunday and they looked so awkward stomping along, wasting energy, and I was watching them out of curiosity, lifting their feet and boards and it all looked a shambles, but they were going at a pace, maybe they were just new to it?
I can't think why the splitties would need to stomp more than skiers, probably just new like you say? Except when you've got the aforementioned crampons on and heel riser you do have to lift your foot (on my set up anyway). Annoying but when you need those crampons, you are glad of them.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stevomcd wrote:
Hot take - bag weight is an issue on the way DOWN, not the way up.
Carrying a heavy bag makes a much bigger difference to my snowboarding than it does to my skinning.
Maybe different on a board, but I've found heavy sack to be not too much of an issue DOWN - ensure you keep a quiet upper body.
And I've skid with some seriously heavy packs - 2 weeks self supported with a week's food fuel tents etc in the Rockies plus Bugs>Rogers Pass - all on fairly skinny tele kit too
@Weathercam, @BobinCH, off to Lofoten with @offpisteskiing, he's taking both an avi bag and a light weight one. It's a series of day tours, not hut to hut, first day touring will be Wed 10th April until Mon 15th then fly back Tues 16th.
I see the Litric zero is total 1,970 grams weight which would be (I guess) noticeably less than my E2 at 2,720g.
I believe so!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@geoffers, it‘s not that it’s a problem, it just makes it less fun.
Slight hiccup today, don't know quite what happened, as you can see my track from a couple of days ago I was following
KenX said there were no tracks to where I ended up and I seem to recall sort of just flipping over, at speed
I was taking this route as the gulley was the only place with snow lower down, otherwise was a long walk out.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stevomcd wrote:
@geoffers, it‘s not that it’s a problem, it just makes it less fun.
As a skier, this is definitely true. I've got used to a large pack but when I'm without camera kit / mountain jewellery, it's a joy
After all it is free
After all it is free
Well that's a wrap finally for the season.
Again, like last season, but a few days later, all the ducks came to be in the correct row, that is, a clear overnight sky, zero degrees at 07:15 and still a closed road up to the Galibier, but open all the way to where I could stash the e-mtb.
At first, the snow was awful, but I had faith in what I'd see when I rode up there a few days prior, and sure enough, once off the flat of the Vallon onto steeper E'ly facing slopes, it was smooth as a carpet and delivered some of the best Spring Skiing of the season
And on the way up Ullr came the closest yet to a Marmot without getting it with his teeth, all caught on video
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Slightly off topic - but impressed ... I need one of those buckles - one of mine has broken (same white buckle, Salamon cam lock, plastic ribbon OK) - anyone know how I can get one?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The Nouvelliste reported today that there have been 8 avalanche deaths in the Valais so far in May, more than the whole of the winter.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
coddlesangers wrote:
I've been wallying away this season a bit more than last, and am reaching that tipping point where I'm getting a bit hacked off being the slow guy....still touring on my stockli stormrider 95's and shifts but having my mate always gaining ground on me and having to wait for me all the time has me thinking the time has come to go weight weinering. Still love how secure I am on the down versus fella's on skimo twigs and pin bindings, but wondering whats the right next step where security on the down isn't super compromised (tend to have to ski a lot of relatively icy and crusty stuff locally given the altitude) ......happy i think to spend a few quid and get a dedicated touring setup now.....suggestions? My HR on my night climb this week had my HR at a 165 average and peaking at 185 so it wasn't like i wasn't trying...
Thread update. Matters were taken out of my hands when on my last tour of last year I smashed my stockli's into a hidden rock, duly breaking one of them in half. This made for a very strange descent, but never mind. We've replaced them with these bad boys
Kastle TX 94's with ATK R11 Evos.....
So I am slowly becoming a member of the weight weenie, twiglet binding club. I've not changed the boots yet, and will be doing a tour Friday morning to see how these go, very excited for the coming season.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Definitely excited to kick the touring season off. Most of my new gear for touring this season has been clothing. BD Recon Bib, Patagonia Snowdrifter jacket, Rab Xenair flex mid, Rab Vapour Rise gloves. Going to get some new poles but can’t decide if to get whippet compatible ones.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Just an update on this, had the first chance to try my Kastle and ATK Raider 11's out for an entirely piste based ski and tour in Villars/ Diablerets on Sunday (side note, congrats to the pisteurs, conditions considering the temps and relative lack of new snow were great). Initial impressions were that I was absolutely blown away by the difference the lighter gear made, literally night and day from touring on my shift/stormrider combo. These also as a bonus, ski very well, they are damp enough to carve on, I did try do see where the limit was on them and its not the binding or the ski, its the fella on top of them. Overall I'm super happy with the setup, for me a ski that can perform on the down while also being light enough on the up so I'm not puffing like Ivor the engine is the holy grail. I've also gotten my hands on a 2nd hand pair of stormrider 88s that i'll be mounting a regular alpine binding up for my seasons quiver to be complete....although having ski'ed the Kastles only on piste this weekend, I don't even know if I need the stocklis anymore.....
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Have you had a decent tour on your new set up @coddlesangers, ?
Today we went out on another conditions assessment with low expectations. We were on the Zweisimmen/Saanenmoser area. From the Parwengsattel we skied south, leaving the ski area.
Approximately 1km out of the area it's skins on and enjoy some beautiful alpine terrain.
The snow was of extraordinary quality. East, N east and N aspects were fabulous powder, something none of us expected. Huge areas completely untracked we had a blast. Quite remarkable that the snow was so good when considering that the last "proper" snowfall over this side was Sat 10th Jan.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Oh I have, had an eventful night tour in the jura last Wednesday during the decent snowfall - very fast pace set on the way up by the swede, I struggled to keep up, but fantastic fresh on the way back down in a blizzard, then followed that on Saturday with a tour around la Dôle , going to head this weekend to the abandoned le Noirmont area .. very happy with the gear and the season to date!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I have been doing little bits of ski touring on and off for 4 years, started out with switch bindings but in december i switched to atk, the difference is incredible, I am very happy with them and how they ski. It has definitely encouraged me to get out more since, but recently when skinning in deep powder i have had some new (to me) issues.
First one is snow sticking to the skins - i read i need to wax them, and can rub it, the iron in the same direction as the fibres?
Second one was after my 3rd transition on Sunday i guess i messed up and some snow got under the skin - the skins literally fell off (and i fell over). it was pretty has to recover from. I guess i wasn't careful enough with water/snow/ice on the bases or skins. I read I could carry an absorbant cloth, and keep the skins in my jacket, to help avoid this. maybe i should have also used a ski strap to keep them on (it affected my last 400m ish of unavoidable skinning). It did also make me a bit worried for the glue - how can i tell if the glue is still ok?
Any tips appreciated, cheers
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kat wrote:
I have been doing little bits of ski touring on and off for 4 years, started out with switch bindings but in december i switched to atk, the difference is incredible, I am very happy with them and how they ski. It has definitely encouraged me to get out more since, but recently when skinning in deep powder i have had some new (to me) issues.
First one is snow sticking to the skins - i read i need to wax them, and can rub it, the iron in the same direction as the fibres?
Best thing i found to do is to warm the wax with your iron than basically crayon it on, and iron with the grain , as you described in the direction of the fibres, makes a huge difference
Second one was after my 3rd transition on Sunday i guess i messed up and some snow got under the skin - the skins literally fell off (and i fell over). it was pretty has to recover from. I guess i wasn't careful enough with water/snow/ice on the bases or skins. I read I could carry an absorbant cloth, and keep the skins in my jacket, to help avoid this. maybe i should have also used a ski strap to keep them on (it affected my last 400m ish of unavoidable skinning). It did also make me a bit worried for the glue - how can i tell if the glue is still ok?
The glue will be fine, keeping the skins dry by keeping them in your jacket if you are going to do a bunch of transitions is best. Just generally trying not to get them unncessarily wet generally, which of course can be tough in wind or exposed areas.
Any tips appreciated, cheers
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@kat, everyone who ski tours has experienced the issues you described.
One of the easiest solutions is to buddy up with someone more established in touring. To point out minor details.
Snow sticking to skins is a royal pain. The reasons for this are generally temperature related or you had a tiny bit of moisture finding it's way on to the surface. Alternative to wax is a little plastic scraper, size of a credit card, sounds a faff removing a ski and scraping down but often it works.
cheers @coddlesangers, and @Rogerdodger, i have just had a go at waxing, and then ironing (low heat). Let's see how they cope on the next outing!
I noticed that there is a little bit of give right at the edge, despite trying my best to get them on perfectly. there is maybe a couple of millimetres of gap in some places. I am going skinning with a guide next week so will also get some advice then, get them to look at them.
i did start keeping them in my jacket if i plan to put them on again, but they were SO wet when i got them out, i was in shade, all my stuff was wet...was kinda hard to get them dry. Maybe i should have been more patient before whacking them on.
Will carry a plastic scraper in my bag, won't add much weight, thanks.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Great move @kat, the guide will clarify all the minor details I mentioned, you will end up laughing as most of it is obvious when pointed out!
The skins sound as if they are perfectly cut, steel edges should be exposed so 2.5 -3mm on each edge of the ski. This enables you to use the ski edge as a knife on ascent on very hard snow.
Have a great day out with the guide.....never stop asking questions!!!
I would however question, I know it's too late, ironing on the wax to the skins, far better and more normal advice is to rub the wax up and down both ways on the skin.
I had major issues beginning of the season and frustratingly the skins had only been used ten or so times.
Also in your pack carry couple of cableties you can join together should you need to attach the skin to get you out of jail, or cord or tape.
Gaffer tape wrapped around your ski pole is a useful tool for those untoward incidents.w
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
gaffer tape is on the shopping list! (although i bumped into my architect who is also in the mountain rescue and he recommends surgical tape)
I would however question, I know it's too late, ironing on the wax to the skins, far better and more normal advice is to rub the wax up and down both ways on the skin.
I had major issues beginning of the season and frustratingly the skins had only been used ten or so times.
Maybe you should have ironed on some wax then
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Another day in Kyrgyzstan riding fresh tracks. One of the most popular peaks to tour up to from the village and I had it to myself today. What's this competition for tracks thing you have in Europe?!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I've just had my arm twisted on a pair of brand new Dynastar M-Free 108s from the ski school I work with. It really took very little convincing.
Plan is to quiver killer those and my Völkl Revolt 121s so I can use my shift bindings across both of them. A friend at our ski school shop can help with this.
We have plans to visit friends in Canada next winter for 10 days, so I want to take the Dynastar 108s and the Völkl 121s to give me a couple of options depending on the weather. We'll be predominantly on lift accessed stuff, but may also tour as well, so I want that option on both skis, and as the focus will be more on the downhill, I'd prefer the shift binding.
Any thoughts on that idea? It also saves me a fortune buying any new bindings.
Second question, any one use the Black Diamond Ascension skins and have any views? I can get them at a reasonable price with a pro deal. From what I've seen they come in a 133mm width and I'll be able to cut them down to fit the Dynastars.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I used Ascension skins for years with zero problems, now on BD Glidelite, lighter and glide better, more packable too
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@KenX, thanks, they have those only in an XL which is 175-186cm which is perfect as my new babies are 185cm. With the pro deal they're the same price as the full priced Ascension, so perhaps that's the one if you think they're better and worth the extra €30 or so?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
That’s some seriously heavy skis you’re planning to tour with!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@BobinCH, I'm hoping to keep the touring element down and mainly lift served. I have some Scott superguide 95s with a plum pin binding which are much lighter, but given we'll like be 80/90% lift and 10/20% touring I'll take the hit for the uphill days. We won't be doing anything too adventurous touring wise anyway.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Head of Raisins. A tour of two halves or maybe four quarters.
8AM start, and despite that, holy moly, it got hot quick, and I must just not be conditioned to the heat. I literally cooked myself during the first 600m of climbing, my heart was going fast! Stopped for a drink (tea) and some more food (homemade energy balls) in the shade of a tree, hoped I didn't annoy my touring buddy too much, and dropped the pace. The rest of the 1200m climb was quite pleasant, with promising snow. Hit the summit at the same time as two other groups that definitely had the legs on us, stunning views.
A quick snack, and it's time for the descent. A little wind crust up top, then holy poo-poo, this is what snowboards are made for, beautiful flowy turns on glorious snow and high speed slashes on a 30-35 degree slope (snow pack felt stable, no red flags on the way up). We continue to descend, making beautiful turns, and then halfway down, things get super heavy and sticky. We are picking our way through some trees and shrubs, at some point, I lose sight of my buddy and realise I have made a navigational error and dropped too low to join the return track at the correct place. Oh well, time to bushwhack through these shrubs and trees with the odd bramble on a 40-degree slope. Oh, look I'm in a clearing, and I've just set off a wet slide, well, at least I don't have to walk down this next bit through 2-3 feet of heavy, almost slushy snow. I make it to the stream that I need to cross and manage to cross it without getting too wet, so that's a win. A few more meters down, and I spot my buddy and the van. Job done.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Popped to Kyrgyzstan for a week and a bit. It’s been a bit warm (haha putting it mildly) but seems to be cooling down. Proper photos once I’ve got home. Spending a couple of days in Jrygalan. Saw some dude put some lines down here. Looked alright; may have been a bit crusty. The backside of that face was pretty good and the more northerly facing stuff was outstanding.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Sharkymark, guessing you were in the cat ski group? Was a bit confused as the skin track up had clearly not been used that morning, then suddenly I saw a big group up at the top was me that did the 3 lines on 23/2 (nobody else skiing it that day) if you have any photos or videos would be interested to see.
There's actually a route down from the peak along the ridge to the place you took the photo from (home peak). I did it yesterday and did the north ridge on home peak which was pretty nice. Guessing you skied it as saw some tracks there.
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the more northerly facing stuff was outstanding.
You need to come back in a good year! Like you say it's been unusually warm the last week, snow is super heavy compared to normal and definitely a bit spring like in places.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yesterday up in the back garden searching for Spring snow, and as you'll see in the vid marginally successful, but what I didn't film was the nigh on rotten snow in the last 150m or so trick was to find anything NW facing off a spine.
Ullr disappeared for quite an age on the ascent as he got a scent and legged it up on to the plateau and then. I heard him barking which is always a sign, and the Tractive GPS tracker confirmed as much.
On the descent I clocked a herd of mouflon/champois and you can hear me shouting at him, but by then he was too knackered to chase and could only muster a couple of barks
Should add that I was using my RAB Mythic Alpine down jacket for the first time in anger as it were, and what a great but of kit, now firmly my fav jacket. Full review below.
Sat 28 Feb. A lovely skin of around an hour to ski......Spring snow, very good Spring snow.
Trump says the climate change lobby is a con. This isn't a con we should be leaping around in half a metre of cold powder, what on earth is going on!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Couloir De La Roya + towards Col de Bouef Rouge
Didn't start well... Climbed a couple of hundred metres then dropped my helmet down a gully. Had to transition to go down and get it, transition again, and skin/break trail on some terrible snow for 400m.. So yes, good start. Carried on up the skin track to La Rouya rappelled into the Coulouir, snow was weird, a thin layer of very sticky and soft snow on top of very firm snow. Not my best snowboarding, but I got down it OK.
So at this point, we are well behind schedule, and the next objective of Col de Bouef Rouge is not looking achievable. Plodded along, the light was flat, the snow tricky, and there was not really a skin track to follow. Made it to some point under Pointe du Rascrouset and had a skin failiure so it was time to turn around. The light was so flat you could not long see which way was up or down, so it was simply trying to feel our way down.
Made it down to the valley floor, now it was time for the worst part... flat/undulating terrain is a snowboarder's nightmare, skated on terrible snow before transitioning for the millionth time that day to split ski no skins. To make it clear, I've never skied I'm not a skier. So there went 7km of hell.
P.S I am actually getting into Nordic classic skiing mostly to make bits like this less terrible.
I think ski touring sometimes suffers from the instagramization of everything - I've had more days where its been type 2 fun rather than type 1, but you wouldn't know that as people rarely talk about it! I've been crazy lucky this year to catch 2-3 awesome days where by skinning at night after a blizzard, the ski down has been absolutely fab, but equally have had 4-5 days where the tour has been "mid" at best either due to terrible viz, bad planning, poor skill levl for skiing crappy snow, user failure (stood on my new atks post transition, hadn't actually engaged them, ski disappeared down 100m of shitty icey bollix, 1 legged ski of shame followed), or the first night ski of the season where i skiied 400 metres past the turn to go back to the car, had to skin back up....etc etc....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@coddlesangers, remind yourself of the thread title again
I took some Geezonaires off the back on Friday having left a car down the next valley in the morning so one particular mate who is managing to survive stage 4 lung cancer could ski it without having to climb back up.
Only issue was that another mate asked to come, 76 years young, only trouble that terrain can find you out*, and he left us via helicopter after falling and breaking his leg badly.
But he'll be back at it next season.
*Can get away with bad technique on the piste
After all it is free
After all it is free
Weathercam wrote:
Only issue was that another mate asked to come, 76 years young, only trouble that terrain can find you out*, and he left us via helicopter after falling and breaking his leg badly.
Yikes, hope he's ok. Recovery from a broken limb at that young age can take a while! But you are correct, I do adhere entirely to the thread title at all times
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