Ski:IQ Score Range in the real world

A snowHead

@larkim, what would you put yourself on our Levels guide scale ?

A snowHead

This is all very interesting, I would class myself as a reasonable piste skier, if I'm generally mincing around, I'll get around 135ish and (hopefully!) look pretty tidy, if I want to up my score, then it's balls to the wall, energetic short turns/edge angle/g-force etc etc and I'm sure it doesn't look as nice......
Gavin Crosby from here scored 168 last season teaching beginners on a green run, low edge angles and g-force, obviously a totally different kettle of fish, but having skied with him, he's mm perfect on everything, ie edging smoothness, edge similarity, parallel skis and so on!
But this year with the new algorithm I don't think that strategy would work as Carv now seems to reward high edge angles, g-force and steeper slopes more than before, that said it wouldn't surprise me to be proved wrong Laughing

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Depressed at GVA currently. Enjoying this thread and maybe a rant about carv will cheer me up. Let's see.

Basi vs carv

I'm inclined to think you're still being too generous with carv scores in your index.

My daughter passed her L3 tech last week. Her long turns are an art form of poise, strength and discipline (proud dad obvs). She doesn't do Carv yet. I do carv, and a few days ago I scammed a 155 Ski IQ by literally throwing myself down a red run using her little SLs. So I'm 155 top score, daily score around 148. But there is no chance I could deliver a set of longs on an L3 tech exam. I would be laughed off the course.

One of the guys on the same L3 exam was 165 on carv. He was touch and go at one point for his shorts form, but brought it around successfully.

There's an argument that you could be giving carv too much credibility by associating it with Basi levels. Carv is a truly engaging wonder-product, that has renewed my love of piste skiing. But carv could never track skill and form anywhere near as effectively as an experienced examiner.. And carv would probably say as much themselves.

Carving/shorts/parallel detection

Regarding carv model detecting these 3 categories of score, my uneducated take on this is:

- carving : the model detects mostly carving in both the build phase and the work phase
- shorts : most of build phase is skidded, most of the work phase is carved.
-parallel : no significant carving in either phase

Like @turbosmurf I've also found that my parallel segments are wider radius than shorts. But is it possible that's an outcome of skidding in the build?

So thanks for letting me blab for a while, definitely helping my end of season mood.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

@AntonAusTirol, the Carv shorts are
An interesting topic. I frigged a 138 in shorts with almost out of control high tempo turns. But then got a 138 this week with much more controlled grippy ski instructor shorts that got classified as parallel! There was grip and edge and an element of carving in those turns.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@AntonAusTirol, agreed. I am also in the 150+ CARV bracket. There is no way that I am as good a skier as an L3 instructor, or not consistently, at least.

You'll need to Register first of course.

I have done L1 and L2 over the past month or so, failing L2. I kept track of the scores for you.

1. My top score is 137 in what Carv thought was powder. In reality this was chopped up spring snow at 5.30pm on Peclet in VT last week. I have no recollection of this run.

2. My second-highest score is 134 in Moguls. This was on shallow bumps, and it felt insanely fast rather than controlled. Best I managed in the L2 exam was 130 which wasn’t quite good enough - if we hadn’t lost a couple of afternoons to fog I think I’d have passed that strand.

3. Carv’s short turns didn’t impress BASI at all. I started my BASI 2 with a score of 127 which was my best ever on Carv. The trainer said “Those aren’t short turns.” By the middle Saturday I was down to scoring 111 on shorts but I reached 128 on the final run which he said would have been a pass if I’d have been able to repeat the run a couple more times. Many of the intervening runs it recorded as ‘parallel’.
4. I didn’t enjoy the carving run BASI offered us for L2 and never got past about 125 on it which didn’t impress the trainer. Carv prefers my runs on wider pistes where I can continue to increase the edge angle post apex and then totally finish the turn. L1 trainer “I think you’d find carving more fun if you straightened the turns out.” I got 131 in the L1 exam which he said would pass L2. Sadly L2 was a different story.

My top-scoring carving runs are generally in the first hour of the day and I score fairly consistently in the 131-133 range pretty much every day; top score 134. Carv mostly measures the quality of the snow and the number of people on the piste…

I have said this elsewhere but the L2 is the best two weeks of my skiing life and has changed me forever! The trainer said I should pass if I do the resit so I can’t be far off despite my CARV scores being about ten points short of the scores suggested by the Inside Out scale. I guess that maybe I have produced a style that looks good enough but that CARV knows lacks in some areas. Kind of the opposite to the high Carv score but not looking as though you can ski…

I enjoy Carv when I’m skiing on my own. It pushes me hard. I find it always encouraging though I note others can find it demotivating. “Go get this Tiger” “That was amazing” (even when it wasn’t.)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@James the Last, you can "frig" Carv short turns by increasing the rotation rate until almost out of control! I got a 138 that way. I really wasn't happy with that skiing though and with the help of an instructor last week got load more grip in my shorts and got a 138 doing "BASI Shorts" that Carv called parallel....

I'm no expert on carving but the instructor I was with last week (instructor trainer/examiner) was saying all your edge angle needs to be finished by the fall line and not increased post apex ....

Good luck with the resit, I failed my L2 on longs and moguls, passed the teach then passed the tech resit the next season after working on those 2 disciplines.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@James the Last, Thanks for the detailed reply, I agree that ski instructor exam turn shape size and tempo dont match up with what Carv is classifying them as but the overall daily scores seem to correlate fairly well with BASI levels...

After a fair amount of tweaking I put the L1 bracket 125-133 typical daily scores and that ties up with what you report. As you didnt quite make it on your L2 exam the 134-141 bracket I put up sounds about right to me whether the score gets classified as shorts, carved or parallel...

FYI one client who recently passed his L2 is at 137 carving and other L2's I work with tend to be in the mid to upper 130's. A few stronger L2's knocking on the door of L3 tech in the upper 130's low 140's

Keep at it and Im sure you will get to the L2 pass Smile

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@kitenski, @swskier, Yeah going back to basics of Early Edge Build, Work Release phases on longs is something I probably need to work on myself. Im falling into the trap of adding edge after the fall line to round the turns off and end up grinding or park and riding... I am more used to bigger faster GS sized turns when "carving" and Carv doesnt seem to reward that as when I release after the fall line my turn radius naturally goes to 20+.. Need to up the angle above the fall line and get pinged in the fall line. Havent been high sided for a long time so tells me Im not gunning it enough Toofy Grin

With clients who don't get early edge I tend to ask them to work on increasing edge angles after the fall line so they get the feel for bigger / madder angs... Works for steeps and low gradient longs but may be counter productive for better skiers trying to carv on steeper slopes...

snow reports

@AntonAusTirol, I would agree with most of what you posted but in a fairly limited amount of time with Carv it seems to classify turns very strictly on radius, corridor and tempo and if any one thing is slightly out it goes into the Parallel bucket

To be honest if I was on an exam I would never use Carv as a feedback tool. That what the Examiner is there for, listen to what they want to see and change accordingly... Use Carv when training not when performing...

You know it makes sense.

@James the Last, out of interest what % of the turn carving does Carv give you in day to day carving?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

@James the Last, no I mean % of turn carved! Called turn potion carved from a quick check

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@kitenski, I have never seen this statistic and have no idea where to find it! There’s so much unnecessary data in this app…

I like the idea of a ‘turn potion’ btw! Eh oh!

You need to Login to know who's really who.

@James the Last, tap carving in the top your picture, then it should show skiiq, tap on the right of that and you can choose various metrics inc portion of turn carved.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Aha! There’s so much buried in this. Here you are - though it’s the best results of each day (or at least the carving score from the best run of each day!)

You'll need to Register first of course.

@James the Last, thanks, although that doesn’t seem to affect the Carv score I think you’ll be needing to get that to 100% to pass your l2.

That stat has helped me figure out a very bad long term habit of rotating my ski and thus I’m not getting 100% either

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@kitenski, yikes more information to look into. Didnt know you could review all the metrics on a daily basis as well as by run.

A bit odd that the Segment Details page doesnt show Turn Portion , you have to dig down into "skills" to see it..

After all it is free

@skimottaret, yes I think the subtle metrics are helpful in fixing/identifying issues vs skiIq

I don’t think turn portion affects skiiq and hence why they don’t show it.

I can see I’m quite good at all the metrics. Annoyingly severally rather than jointly though. If only I could combine a 100% weight release with a 99% carved turn etc. then I’d be able to ski.

Are other users normally getting 100% turn portion carved scores in real world skiing?

My problem was apparently park and ride. Though I confess I don’t really understand that one totally. If you increase edge angle you reduce the turn radius, but haven’t you thereby parked on, and ridden, a reduced radius?

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@James the Last, Yes I'm getting 100% for turn portion carved, on every turn, on my highest scoring runs on less steep slopes. However, my highest score for the season was on a much steeper slope and then my carved portion % was all over the place, averaging only 85%.
As we all know, slope steepness trumps everything else for high IQ scores.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@James the Last, especially with park and ride you should be able to hit 100% carving score. You got any video of you carving? Now I've worked out my issue it's blindingly obvious on all videos dating back many years, so trying to undo a 20 year ingrained bad habit is going to be fun!!

snow reports

@James the Last, if i'm carving i'm virtually entirely at 100%.

With park and ride it's more about moving through the turn. It's easy to set an angle early in the turn and then do nothing until you start making your next turn. What's difficult at all levels of skiing ability is to be influencing the turn the entire way through.

Really trying to incline/topple in to the turn to build early edging will tighten the radius, then adding more angulation to further create edge angle will tighten the turn even more, then once you hit the fall line/apex, starting to soften that outside leg so you can start moving in to your next turn. Rinse and repeat.

If you're doing the above then you're not park and riding. If you have videos, it'll really help with everyone's feedback, if that's what you want. Obviously if you don't want that feedback don't post them Very Happy

I can't find the "progress over time" section in the IOS version of the app. I can find a turn by turn comparison but not over days. Can someone point me in the right direction ?

You know it makes sense.

@AndAnotherThing.., HOME screen and upper right corner icon looks like a bar graph

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

Carv puts enormous emphasis on turn closure imo for reasons I don’t understand. Do Olympian GS racers close their turn? Does that mean they’re not carving? If you want a high score then finish the turn. This does limit the slopes you can do it on as they have to be wide. Whereas it apparently pays so little attention to ‘portion of turn carved’ that you have to dig for it. Slope pitch gets you extra points too, with non-carved runs on steep slopes scoring better than carved turns on shallow slopes.

I’ve just been looking at my progress over my eight weeks’ skiing this year. I achieved a top SkiIQ of 132 at the beginning of that period and 132 at the end. This hides enormous progress that has been made. First number is January, second number April.

Parallel skis 69/93
Portion turn carved 75/93
Turn shape 57/88
Turn closure 79/43
Early edging 46/42
Edging smoothness 15/61
Edging similarity 47/75
Edge build 60/76
Edge angle 58/54 (58 is way higher than any other run!)
Weight release 100/46
G force 1.2/1.1
Slope pitch 21/13 degrees

I’ve no idea what it was I used to do to achieve 100% weight release. But I used to achieve it frequently and something killed it during BASI 2.

I’ve no recent carving videos annoyingly, sorry!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@James the Last, Cheers for posting that. The Weight Release is an outlier there ? I know I spent a little time working on that after reading the blurb to try and improve the score.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@swskier, nice video, linking back into my other thread, do you actively think about pulling your inner ski tip back or pushing your outer ski "forwards" through the turn at all? The trainer I was skiing with was talking about this all the time "telemark skiing" for everyone on his course.

You'll need to Register first of course.

I agree with swskier, my highest IQ had a 9.2m corridor and I think slope steepness should be rewarded.

Jnr has been trying CARV again, for the 1st time since New Year. But, he still can't get them to work in moguls, I think he is going to contact them about it. CARV will recognise his turns when he's doing drills and skiing slower in the bumps, but as soon as he does what he considers to be good runs through the moguls, it doesn't recognise any of his turns and says he needs 8 turns to get an IQ.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@doddsie, How is he skiing the moguls? Down the zipper line or across the fall line and then turning? Got any video of him in the moguls where it doesn't recognise it as doing 8 turns? Perhaps he is simply hammering down the fall line with hardly any rotation at all? I'd expect it to register as parallel or shorts if not moguls.

Last thing to try would be a sensor reset.

After all it is free

Done sensor reset, pretty sure it’s the skiing that’s the problem.

Video of a run it didn’t recognise any turns.

https://youtube.com/shorts/2yzxLS3wmEQ?si=65V7jNxMkpVDMpk8

@doddsie, nice skiing, I do wonder then if it's simply not enough rotation? Worth opening a Carv support call and sharing that vid.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@doddsie, my best moguls score was in a zipperline but I was less direct than DoddsieJr. Mainly because he's way better at skiing than I am Laughing

@kitenski, I don't think about outside ski forward or inside back, but, I did work on that in a lesson back in Jan 2020 before I'd done my L1. We were talking about outside foot forward. That said, a mate of mine always thinks about inside foot back. So I'd say whatever works best for you when you try it out and neither is right or wrong. The only thing I really think about is trying to get my outside leg as long as possible.

Help!!

Ski:IQ Score Range in the real world

snowHeads Forum Index >>> The Piste