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Off Piste Guiding
Off Piste Forum is supported by Mountain Tracks - Ski off-piste

Off piste insurance, who is best ?

Author

Off piste insurance, who is best ?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi,

I've been looking at renewing our annual multi trip policy and checking various companies wording with regard to 'off piste'

Dogtag as advertised here on SH seem to offer cover to ski anywhere (not closed off areas) regardless of resort boundarys, even without a guide (although recomended)
Anyone on here using them? Or have been unfortunate enough to have tested the cover ?

I'm currently with 'Complete ski' who offer good cover including heliskiing but are more expensive.

D.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hi scarbski, first just to let you know that someone will say use the search engineas as 'this has been covered before!' Ignore this, - no don't ignore, please do a search also, but this topic should be live all the time for me as it is pretty crucial. I have been with Direct Travel for 4 years. I have had a payout from them of over 8000 Euro's, a couple of years ago for my daughters Cruciate ligament injury. So they have been ok, even if it took me 6 months to get the money from them! Fee for a family of 3, (my other two daughters now have their own insurance being a tad too old for family cover), moved from £85 to £122 in one year. Not good. Now moved to LV. Looks fine. This is for off piste, without an instructor of guide, but must be within the resort boundaries. In other words in Zermatt there are a number of lift served, but not pisted runs which are fine, as is going between pistes, and messing about at the sides. Thats as far as I ever take it. Going down something dodgier that this is way past where I am prepared to go. Cost is £81. This is for a full year European cover. Hope this helps
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just renewed my BMC insurance. Two people for a year, 45 day max, 90 day total, very few exclusions (snowboarding at a premium) £450. Includes all mountain activities on skis.
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jbob, I've used BMC before and might do the same again this year as I'll be doing a big trip including ice climbing and also a motorbike tour in the summer. There are only so many companies doing decent cover for longer trips which include more risky activities.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
They also do a 90 day Max which would put my single policy up from £177 to £399. Might be worth it to get an extra two weeks of skiing in Toofy Grin
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I used to be with Direct Travel for many years. On two occasions that i had to use them they were very good. Having said that 3 years ago they started playing around with their wording of what is included in off piste cover (apparently if you have to rappel on or off the route it is ski mountaineering) and that they would only cover if it was deemed 'safe' (what ever that means ) to go off piste in the event of an accident so i changed to BMC. Not cheap but covers the lot.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
scarbski, Previous Direct Travel user, but I've just taken out an annual policy with MPI brokers. There is no off-piste restrictions placed on you.
http://b2c.mpibrokers.com/travel-insurance/medical-conditions.html
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I think SCGB standard insurance covers on and off piste, with or without a guide and beyond the resort boundary, but check the details to be sure. Also very reasonably priced for their annual family policy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
+1 for MPI
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I use Snowcard, cheap ish for op cover.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Stolen from the Eagles site


BMC insurance
Caution: read the small print carefully.

BMC have changed their insurance underwriters in recent years and cover is no longer comprehensive. Last year I bought the ‘Alpine and Ski’ annual policy which, following an accident reimbursed medical costs (minus excess £100) and mountain evacuation.

In previous years other ‘actual’ costs would have been reimbursed but now there is a limit of ‘£25 per day up to a maximum of £250’. This sum is in lieu of such actual costs as; ski lift pass, ski lessons, mountain guide fees, etc. My accident was a couple of days before a Mountain Guide led course and because of the low daily limit I was effectively not reimbursed Guide fees of approx £400.

In addition, car hire is not covered. So, the extra premium for an additional driver (£65), to return the car to the airport after I had broken my leg, was not reimbursed.

Those with an eye to climate take note. The Policy is developed around the concept of a ‘Trip’. Therefore if you are trying to minimize your journeys to the Alps, and combine otherwise individual weeks, there is still a maximum of £250 for the longer ‘Trip’.

Other insurers may or may not have better cover than the BMC policy – I have yet to investigate.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thanks for replys,

I just tried a comparable quote from BMC which came out over double the Dogtag quote !!

They seem v reasonable for the cover, think i may recheck ..
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
scarbski wrote:
Thanks for replies,

I just tried a comparable quote from BMC which came out over double the Dogtag quote !!

They seem v reasonable for the cover, think i may recheck ..


eta
This is for worldwide multi annual 24days wintersports x 2adults.

For anywhere off piste Dogtag quote = £160, To include heli skiing £240, add touring = £280

Complete ski (21days winter sports) Off piste within boundaries or anywhere with guide, inc heli ski and search/rescue £214. They make no mention of touring tho'

Not really sure what becomes touring, ? A lot of runs require hiking some distance.
Will have to contact them when holls over for more exact definitions.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
BMC comes into it's own if you are also mountaineering or ice climbing. Most other companies won't touch those.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Might be stupid question but here goes, Could you do this
Buy a decent but basic/cheap wintersports policy from a reputable company, typically £80 for a family for a years holiday insurance that would include 14 days wintersports, that would cover the usual cancelations, hospital bills, repatriation stuff then pay locally for the "Carte Neige" when you get your lift pass, that is only a couple of euros a day then that would that cover you for getting you off the mountain if you had an accident on or off piste/out of bounds ???. You could also make sure you have an upto date E111 to help with the hospital bills.

The expensive bit is the skidoo or helicopter of the mountain, and if you are in an EU country the emergancy hospital stuff would be covered buy your e111 and insurance no matter where the accident occured.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
qwertyuiop7, problem would occur if you need repatriated by air ambulance for a serious injury, Carré neige (the insurance you buy per day with your lift pass) wouldn't cover that, and your insurer might not depending on the circumstances of your injury (off-piste against resort advice, without a guide etc etc).
Licence Carte Neige will repatriate in the event of it being required though (if you buy the appropriate policy), and that covers you for the whole season.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hells Bells, I was looking at "Licence Carte Neige" while at the PSB - do you know if it's possible to:

1. Buy it from the UK ?

2. Does it covers you outside of France ?

It''s a tempting proposition.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
AndAnotherThing.., I've looked at it too, but decided to go with the MPI policy instead. You can buy it online, and I believe it covers you outside of France too, Lizzard is more knowledgeable about this than me. However, as I wasn't sure if it covers for other mountain activities during the summer months, we decided to use MPI.
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As I have said before - the idea of a resort boundary is meaningless in Europe - there is just no way to define it without excluding some runs which most people would accept were Ok.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
AndAnotherThing.., it's available when you buy your lift pass at any French resort - I always buy it.

Nicked this from elsewhere:

Carré Neige/Licence Carte Neige
The Carré Neige and Licence Carte Neige provide top-up insurance and assistance for residents of the European Union. Residents of EU countries other than France should carry the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) while skiing, in case of an accident.

"The Carré Neige is short-term insurance available at participating resorts. It is sold at lift pass offices and can be bought when buying the lift pass. It is valid as long as the pass is valid for all snow sports (by amateurs) in France and neighbouring Switzerland.

The Carré Neige provides insurance and assistance: search and rescue, first transport, medical expenses and repatriation (as well as bad weather insurance for the cost of unusable ski passes). In the event of an accident, a claim should be made within eight days. The claim should include the original lift pass and medical certificate detailing the injuries.

The Licence Carte Neige, issued by the Fédération Française de Ski (FFS), provides long-term cover and is available at participating French ski resorts. It is valid for amateurs involved in any mountain sport accident (with some minor exclusions), anywhere in the world. There are various types of Licence Carte Neige providing different degrees of cover depending on individual circumstance.

•Further information on the Carte Neige can be found at Natives.co.uk."

'Bells - I am pretty sure the Carré does cover the cost of the heli to the hospital but only if you have not been trucked off by skidoo first
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RattytheSnowRat wrote:
AndAnotherThing.., it's available when you buy your lift pass at any French resort - I always buy it.

Nicked this from elsewhere:

Carré Neige/Licence Carte Neige
The Carré Neige and Licence Carte Neige provide top-up insurance and assistance for residents of the European Union. Residents of EU countries other than France should carry the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) while skiing, in case of an accident.

"The Carré Neige is short-term insurance available at participating resorts. It is sold at lift pass offices and can be bought when buying the lift pass. It is valid as long as the pass is valid for all snow sports (by amateurs) in France and neighbouring Switzerland.

The Carré Neige provides insurance and assistance: search and rescue, first transport, medical expenses and repatriation (as well as bad weather insurance for the cost of unusable ski passes). In the event of an accident, a claim should be made within eight days. The claim should include the original lift pass and medical certificate detailing the injuries.

The Licence Carte Neige, issued by the Fédération Française de Ski (FFS), provides long-term cover and is available at participating French ski resorts. It is valid for amateurs involved in any mountain sport accident (with some minor exclusions), anywhere in the world. There are various types of Licence Carte Neige providing different degrees of cover depending on individual circumstance.

•Further information on the Carte Neige can be found at Natives.co.uk."

'Bells - I am pretty sure the Carré does cover the cost of the heli to the hospital but only if you have not been trucked off by skidoo first


Looks like it would be fine if combined with your E111 and a basic winter sports policy to cover cancelations and other normal holiday stuff.
Its cheap aswell Laughing
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
qwertyuiop7, Remember, the Carre/Carte will not include other things included in normal holiday insurance, in particular, the cost of medical repatriation back to the UK, as well as all the cancellation, lost bags clauses etc.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Chamcham, Carte Neige (which is the annual version) does cover repatriation if you buy the right policy level. I think Medium and Optimum include it, but you can check it out easily enough on the website.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Hells Bells, I couldn't find repatriation on their website, although that may be because my French isn't up to it Blush . Even if it does, given that it's aimed at French nationals, would it cover repatriation only to France?
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I think covers the repatriation thingie:

Cette garantie est réservée au détenteur du
titre fédéral adéquat pour lequel il a acquitté
la cotisation correspondante.
L’assistance Llicence CARTE NEIGE fonctionne
24 h sur 24 et 365 jours par an et organise les
services suivants : en cas de maladie ou d’accident
corporel garanti, y compris la mort subite, survenant
à un titulaire de la licence CARTE NEIGE, dès
le premier appel, l’équipe médicale de MONDIAL
ASSISTANCE se met, si nécessaire, en rapport
avec le médecin traitant sur place et / ou le médecin
de famille s’il y a lieu, afin d’intervenir dans les
conditions les mieux adaptées à l’état du malade
ou de l’accidenté.
Dans ce chapitre, l’Europe géographique comprend
les pays suivants :
Albanie, Allemagne, Andorre, Autriche, Belgique,
Biélorussie, Bosnie-Herzégovine, Bulgarie, Croatie,
Danemark, Espagne, Estonie, Finlande, France,
Gibraltar, Grèce, Hongrie, Irlande, Islande, Italie,
Lettonie, Liechtenstein, Lituanie, Luxembourg,
Macédoine, Moldavie, Monaco, Norvège, Pays-
Bas, Pologne, Portugal, Roumanie, Royaume-Uni,
Russie Occidentale, Slovaquie, Slovénie, Suède,
Suisse, République Tchèque, Ukraine, Yougoslavie.

Get the Optimum and it pretty much covers everything regarding a prang on the slope and the aftermarth. You have to think of the insurance for a French national who just popped out for the afternoon to ski in France or Switzerland - it's not meant to be holiday cover so it will not substitute.
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Quote:

if you need repatriated by air ambulance for a serious injury, Carré neige (the insurance you buy per day with your lift pass) wouldn't cover tha

Yes it would. What would be the point in wintersports insurance which didn't cover repatriation? Puzzled

Cover details: http://www.carreneige.com/content/download/offresalpin-garanties.pdf
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My daughter gets carte neige season long cover, but has to produce a doctors medical cert. to buy it.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Lizzard, thanks for clearing that up. Loads of threads on here suggest that it doesn't.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Hells Bells, that's because they are written by people who don't have Google. Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
A Friend who has an apartment in La Rossier was repatriated to the UK after a nasty collision under their annual "Carte Neige" cover. They were excellent by all accounts.

RattytheSnowRat, Google hints that defines 'Europe' in terms of scope of cover. Perhaps that covers both questions - repatriation and scope of cover in the EU.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
AndAnotherThing.., good to know. jbob, online application requires a medical certificate to be posted to a given address within 15 days of taking out the Carte Neige.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
OK. Highjacking this thread a little bit. Sceanrio is as follows:

- Spending 4 weeks in Tignes
- Have Worldwide Travel Insurance courtesy of Amex
- Amex policy clearly states that it covers skiing (+ other snow sports)
- Amex policy covers off-piste, with a guide
- Seems mad to buy a second policy

If I buy my Carré Neige and I go out of bounds with whomever I find to ride with, will that get me off the hill when I've done my ACL? If so, I figure I can then kick in with the Amex policy once I am au medecin. Am I right, or am I wrong?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
zammo, wrong. Being off-piste without a guide will vitiate the Amex policy, so you won't be able to claim on it for anything to do with the accident. Imho. (I am a lawyer, but not the right sort. wink )
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Pedantica, I had a horrible feeling that's what the answer would be. So looks like I need an additional piece of 1 trip cover to ensure I'm OK for any un-guided off piste. How tedious.

Out of curiosity, if I were to fall on piste, thus injuring myself, but to slide during the aftermath of the incident to a location deemed to be off-piste, who would pick up my claim? This type of cross-demesne incident must occur in all sorts of insurance situations, surely?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
zammo, that is why we took out a totally new policy with MPI, although we did remove the cancellation and baggage cover, as they will still be covered by our bank policy. I can't see us losing our luggage off-piste without a guide.
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zammo, I think commonsense would prevail and you would be covered. Actually, there was a case a few years ago of a UK insurer refusing to cover someone who'd fallen off a T-bar which was by definition off-piste: the injured person appealed and won, I'm glad to say.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
AndAnotherThing.., the area of repatriation coverage is at the end of the section I quoted in French above and incudes the UK. The other point is dealt with by purchase, if you can buy it at the lift pass office, you are covered. I would guess if you can't, you won't be Very Happy . There will def be diff coverage with scope of coverage being much more limited. I doubt the scope of coverage is greater than France/Switzerland (+ maybe some bits of Italy?).

Pedantica, being pedantic - it won't vitiate the policy, zammo simply won't be able to claim as the activity is outside the scope of cover. Smile

zammo if the accident occurred on piste you would be covered (assuming all other conditons were fulfilled). The problem I think you will run into is proving where the incident occurred if you were recovered from off piste. I'd practice crawling pisteward with broken limbs if I were you ...... Madeye-Smiley . I'd also make it very clear what AMEX mean as a 'guide' if you seek to rely on the policy and ski OffP guided. Sometimes insurers will argue that their definition does not relate to the definition in the country in which the guide is working, especially if the guide is not local to the area or just qualified (i.e. 'expert' does not always = 'qualifed'). And don't forget the helmet issue - that''s the current favourite for insurers trying to avoid liability. I know you use one OffP but OnP might also be an issue nowdays.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
RattytheSnowRat, my thinking was that the action proposed by zammo, of playing one policy off against the other, so to speak, might be beyond the utmost faith required by such a contract. But it's a been a lo-o-oong while since I even used the word 'vitiate' - it just popped out, without too much thought! wink
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Pedantica, I always like to use 'vitiate' at every oppurtunity - not for any practical reason, I just like the sound and the bemused expression that passes across the face of most people when the word arises in conversation Very Happy. I find the effect expressly rewarding when I and the person with whom I am in discussion are drunk. They then have the added inebriated burden of trying to work out what I (theoretically) meant to say assuming I was slurring. Cruel and priceless!

It's not uberimae fides to do the playing off, but it would be if he did not declare to the insuring parties that he was doing it. That may well vitiate both contracts. In practice, the two insuring entites get together and split the cost between them so he wouldn't have the option anyway Sad
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RattytheSnowRat, Laughing

But permit me the tiniest bit of pedantry at this point: 'uberrimae'. wink
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