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Hydration - water vs orange squash vs porridge

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Hydration - water vs orange squash vs porridge

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I need to drink more when I go skiing. I get Altitude sickness and drinking may be the answer.

But, must I drink water or will orange squash be equally effective ? Are all non-alcholic water-based drinks helpful, coca-cola for instance, coffee ?

And alchohol has the opposite effect ?

What about porridge which I believe is a diuretic, is that working against me ?

Mike


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 22-04-08 20:17; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You're going to have problems sucking porridge through the tube on your hydration pack, and doing so with Coca Cola could be interesting; I'm guessing that most will come out through your nose, significantly reducing its hydrating effect. Orange squash is foul. I usually go for lime squash or something of that sort; there's a much better choice of 'sirops' in France than in UK. I suppose that some disgusting rehydration fluid with glucose and salts in it is the best thing, but who wants to a) drink it or b) pay for it?


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 23-04-08 9:08; edited 2 times in total
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micky, coke and coffee will tend to dehydrate you because of their caffeine content. Porridge will block the valve of your camelbak.
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micky, I would think water is best, but if you find orange squash more palatable......
Carbonated drinks often contain caffeine. Wasn't aware that porridge is a diuretic Puzzled but is certainly a good nourishing food to keep you going til lunchtime.
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old mutzig
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Sorry, I didn't mean hydration using a Camelback, I just meant drinking more on my way to resort and possibly the day before if that helps. When I'm actually skiing I usually have hot chocolate in cafes.

Robinsons Orange Barley is pretty good though I do prefer Tesisseire sirop (now available in Waitrose).

I eat Porridge most mronings but I'm sure I read somewhere that it is diuretic (tea certainly seems to be).

David Murdoch, ??
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I just typed "is porridge a diuretic" into Google and this thread came out as top answer - amazing.
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micky wrote:
When I'm actually skiing I usually have hot chocolate in cafes.


Try putting water in your Camelback and drinking (lots) of it through the day, esp if you suffer from altitude sickness.

Drinking water the day before won't help, but won't hinder either IMHO.

Your urine should be clear, not yellow, if it's yellow drink more water during the day, small sips often is better than a pint once or twice a day!

Cheers,

Greg
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micky,
Quote:

I read somewhere that it is diuretic (tea certainly seems to be).


Any fluid will be diuretic if you take in more than you need. I seem to remember reading recently that the diuretic effect of caffeine is pretty much non- existant. If you need more fluids then the one you find most palatable will probably be the most effective. I suspect for many alcohol the night before is thebiggest culprit. It is for me anyway Embarassed
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T Bar,
Quote:

I suspect for many alcohol the night before is thebiggest culprit. It is for me anyway

There is no doubt alcohol is a diuretic however If taken in a dilute form about 4-5% eg Beer, the beverage generally has a hydrating effect overall. saying that a few pints at lunch is not going to help your skiing much Laughing
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micky, Be careful aslo not to change your diet or introduce things into it that you aren't used to, that can be equally as bad. If you don't drink diluted squash as a norm that may not be such a good idea?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Water.
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Whitegold, spot on.

Rookiemark, so you have never been dehydrated after drinking lots of beer the night before?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I followed Kitenski's fluid advice

Quote:

urine should be clear, not yellow, if it's yellow drink more


Not sure it agreed with me though Puzzled
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Going by Lucozade's principles: If you love the taste of orange squash, that will work best.

In their blurb, they say "Locozade Hydrasport: Better hydration than water!" How does that work then, I enquired. "It tastes great so you drink more" was the reply on their website rolling eyes

Porridge is the food of the gods. It will never work against you. wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
stoatsbrother,
Quote:

Any fluid will be diuretic if you take in more than you need.

Quoting Tbar above Beer has a hydrating effect in Small quantities
The Info given was from a study I read in the press a few months ago. Here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/11/01/scibeer101.xml
Quote:

Your urine should be clear, not yellow

How often does one pee Yellow after a big night on the beer?
Of course, water or an isotonic drink wil be far better at preventing dehydration
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Rookiemark, appears to be a non-peer reviewd study dealing with half a pint of beer only, with undisclosed (in that report) time frame and measures for assessing hydration. rolling eyes
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stoatsbrother, I think you will find they were given a Pint of beer Quote:-Prof Garzon asked a group of students to do strenuous exercise in temperatures of around 40ºC (104ºF). Half were given a pint of beer, while the others received the same volume of water. Shock Anyway the good news is that a pint or two (not a gallon) after skiing probably wont hurt ad far as hydration is concerned Toofy Grin


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 23-04-08 9:25; edited 1 time in total
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Rookiemark, sorry misread - one pint. Stilll a far from brilliant idea - and that study unless properly replicated - proves nothing - and you haven't answered by question of 23:02. Ask any urologist what they say to people who are peeing too often. Drink less beer, coffee and tea.
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stoatsbrother, Again I do not disagree but in Small quantities it will do little or no harm, and to quote the last part of the article
Dr Betts said: "If you are dehydrated to start with following exercise, a beer, as opposed to a spirit, probably does not have a high enough concentration of alcohol to induce a diuretic effect."
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My understanding was that absorption of water is better if mixed with something, so long as that something is not too much sugar/alcohol/caffeine. Diluted apple juice is sposed to be common amongst cyclists or diluted orange juice with a pinch of salt, as a home brew isotonic drink. Should get better rehydration than plain water, and no diuretic effect if the sugar level is below a certain percentage.
I could of course be talking rubbish, but apple juice tastes nicer than plain water, so maybe it makes you drink more Wink
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andy, I woudl agree with that.
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Forgive me if this sounds biased (it's in my name) - beer is a very effective hydration system - at the time of drinking. Any other effects to do with peeing come later - and I suspect this has to do with volume, rather than any diuretic nonsense. In fact it is a well held view of many, that any drink whatsoever will rehydrate you while you drink, and for some time afterwards. Diuretic effects come along later - and so what - just drink some more. If you pee it out replace it.

For what it's worth I get motion sickness sometimes, altitude sickness sometimes, hangovers alot, dehydrated (mornings, but not morning sickness), knackered alot etc etc and beer always sorts it out !

Going back to beer - it's all good - hydrates, relaxes, makes everyone else more attractive, gives you special powers - and so on and so forth - don't underestimate the benefits.

Porridge on the other is not the food of the Gods - that's Ambrosia, which is RicePudding.
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Salt is diuretic - but I doubt that even Scottish porridge has enough to have an appreciable effect. I agree - just drink regularly.
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Porridge = fibre - absorbs water through digestive tract. It's not a diuretic itself, it just uses more of the fluid you've taken in, so you need to consume more.

Water by itself is fine as long as you eat something to replace salts & sugars, if you just want to drink it might be best to go along with the diluted juices described, very well, by andy.
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I suspect there is quite a lot of pseudoscience and bs with the need for certain hydration fluids for sports.
To address a few of the points on this thread though.
Drink any fluid beyond your needs and you have to pee it out. So anything can appear diuretic. The evidence that caffeine has any importance as a diuretic is minimal. Also for skiing purposes what evidence there is about caffeine and sporting performance suggests that it may enhance sporting performance. I dont think drinking coke/tea or whatever is likely to harm your hydration or inhibit your skiing.

Alcohol is a wee bit different, it is known to have a central action inhibiting production of a hormone called antidiuretic hormone. Needless to say this makes you pee. It may well be that in small quantities with a lot of water as in a pint of beer the hydration effect may outweigh the diuretic effect. But the capacity of the body to metabolise alcohol is overwhelmed by increasing quantities. It may well be that in larger doses even with a fair amount of water you can be dehydrated. I doubt it has been studied but I know I feel dry after too much the night before. Embarassed

As far as absorbtion of different fluids I think there is a bit of evidence suggesting that you can get marginally quicker absorption of fluids from the so called sports drinks. But as most of us snack a bit thereby adding our own carbohydrate and salt It will make no difference. I doubt that the effect is of any importance outside prolonged strenuous excercise in trained people who are not eating other things. This may apply to the occasional snowHead when skiing it does not apply to me though. Very few people on a western diet will be deplete of salts in anything even vaguely resembling normal exercise.

As far as looking at your pee and seeing if it is yellow. It may just reflect dilution due to an artificial diuresis if done after booze rather than reflecting adequate hydration.
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I tend to favour coke for the sugar but could make do with water if need be. Are we saying that coke has no value in these cases?

I'll drink a hot chocolate or coke at lunch time. Beer or alcohol can wait until the skiing is finished.

My snacks on the hill will be sugar or Mars or a Chocolate of sorts. Maybe I'll have an energy bar or two but mini mars are the favourite as easily sorced in supermarkets at garages at the last minute. For example, you try and buy a bootle of a soft drink in Le Grave in a hurry in the morning....!!!
I'll carry water or coke in the pack as well.
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I carry minature bars of Cadburys dairy milk and a hip flask of Genepe. The missus has a small bottle of water (rarely used). We stop for coffee mid morning and I have a pint at lunch time. Never been thirsty yet Confused
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JT,Coke may well be useful for it's sugar boost, but the carbohydrate content is higher than is used in sports drinks for maximum absorption, however as above I am a bit dubious about most peoples requirement for this. If you are excercising hard though you may well need more carbohydrate. Coke or mars bars or whatever should all work.
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I view myself as a camel, somewhere within my lardy body there is a hidden store (not so hidden in parts Toofy Grin ) of most things I will burn off during the day. Come run a 1/2 marathon with me or a marathon and see what energy burn is. Skiing (not touring) does not burn that much energy off that people need to intake vast quantities of sugar etc..
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 Poster: A snowHead
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thefatcontroller,
Quote:

Skiing (not touring) does not burn that much energy off that people need to intake vast quantities of sugar etc..


Totally agree with that for a lot of people however reading JT 's missives he seems to do a fair amount of uphill to get to his spots plus skiing quite a lot of heavy snow off piste. This is a lot more energy demanding than messing around on pistes.
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T Bar, Don't disagree on that point and also you end up out of reach of restaurants etc...
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T Bar,

ok, thanks, not too wide of the mark then with my plan.

I have suffered with tiredness on a holiday lately... but not on an earlier one where I did 12 days on the trot..!! I didn't change much in the way of prep
that I can see..... Puzzled
I still can't explain this and certainly don't want the same next year
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Diuretic is when you overall pee out more than you take in and end up dehydrated.
Alcohol does this - was tried on sports science students if I recall correctly - after exercise even at 4% alcohol overall peed out more than put in. Shandy may work at 2% otherwise rehydrate before you dehydrate with alcohol.
Fluid in the gut with oats in porridge should be absorbed eventually as the fibre is largely soluble - different matter if you take bran or high cereal fibre diet where the fibre and fluid stay in the gut from start to exit - hence constipation being a consequence of dehydration (tho guys beer can be a laxative in men more than women so you could end up dehydrated and not constipated!).
Isotonic drinks with some carb and salts replace that lost in sweating so should improve rehydration - if you aren't eating and just sweat and drink water you lower blood salt levels and have to pee out water and reduce blood volume to compensate - so you can be underhydrated and still pee masses.
Both fat and carb metabolism releases some water.
Caffeine in moderation - 3-4 normal cups tea/coffee per day will not dehydrate. Wouldn't recommend the triple shot espresso tho.
Sugary foods help some people, hinder others - variable.
Very Happy
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IIRC the method of forcing the water across the beans to make Expresso actually results in less caffeine than an 'ordinary' coffee, due to the short time the beans are in contact with the water... you get the intense flavour, but any perceived triple 'hit' or jolt is purely psychosomatic (although of course it could all be usual snowHead BS...).
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Late starter,
Quote:

Isotonic drinks with some carb and salts replace that lost in sweating so should improve rehydration - if you aren't eating and just sweat and drink water you lower blood salt levels and have to pee out water and reduce blood volume to compensate - so you can be underhydrated and still pee masses.


The bodies response to lowered blood volume is to hold onto water even if it lowers the sodium levels. Sports drinks are still low in sodium compared with your blood and will not really help, the sodium is there to speed absorbtion from the gut. The fine points may be of some relevence to people continually exercising in a hot climate such as those doing iron man . But for the vast majority keeping a reasonable fluid intake with a normal diet will do just fine.
( I have the experience of doing quite a lot of moderately long distance hill walking in a tropical climate)
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T Bar, Also how calorific are these sports drinks, compared to the energy being burnt off?
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thefatcontroller,
Depends on the drink and how much exercise you are doing, they are not usually highly calorific though. I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with them just that they are rendered virtually meaningless if taken with other food and are somewhat unnecessary without food for most peoples level of activity.
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thefatcontroller, from a quick look at the sports drink bottles i have, looks like there are about 100 - 150 calories in a 500ml bottle. Not sure how many calories people burn off skiing, but I can't believe its as many as some of the websites say, especially when you reach an okay level and ski comfortably on piste!
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KateF, I am sure the irony is the better the skier the less calories you burn? I am sure touring etc.. is hell and you burn calories like mad but a good skier on pisted runs is barely breaking sweat (don't you just hate it when they glide past on a black Evil or Very Mad ). People completely over exaggerate their need for calorie intake on a skiing holiday. It is basically unfit people taking high level exercise and thinking shoving large quantities of lucozade sport down thier gut will provide a miracle sure for hangovers and general levels of being unfit. It ain't rocket science snowHead
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