Poster: A snowHead
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Hi everyone, I'll be flying into Frankfurt from the states on December 9th and will be leaving around December 22nd. What resorts are recommended? Price is a small factor (just no 5 stars like Badrutt), however resort level snow is very important. I'll be going with two others. Two of us are somewhat experienced skiers and the other a little better than a beginner. Any country is fine.
What place is snow-guaranteed? Any suggestions?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 16-08-18 7:32; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nowhere can guarantee valley level snow then, but high up in either Ötztal (Obergurgl), the Arlberg (St Christoph, Lech), Montafon (Gargellen) are probably the most likely to have it. Maybe high up in Paznaunertal too, so Galtür rather than Ischgl, for example.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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valley level snow is very important
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Nowhere in France is certain of valley-level snow in mid December either. It might fall to that level early in the season, but not necessarily stick around.
However, if you are prepared to compromise on this, Tignes would be my suggestion for the French Alps. There is likely to be plenty open, quiet slopes and quite possibly links across to Val d'Isere and loads of scope.
If valley level snow is vital I'd suggest postponing your holiday by a month!
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pam w wrote: |
Quote: |
valley level snow is very important
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Nowhere in France is certain of valley-level snow in mid December either. It might fall to that level early in the season, but not necessarily stick around.
However, if you are prepared to compromise on this, Tignes would be my suggestion for the French Alps. There is likely to be plenty open, quiet slopes and quite possibly links across to Val d'Isere and loads of scope.
If valley level snow is vital I'd suggest postponing your holiday by a month! |
How about Val Thorens? The village is up at 2300m, is this not enough for mid December?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w wrote: |
Quote: |
valley level snow is very important
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Nowhere in France is certain of valley-level snow in mid December either. It might fall to that level early in the season, but not necessarily stick around.
However, if you are prepared to compromise on this, Tignes would be my suggestion for the French Alps. There is likely to be plenty open, quiet slopes and quite possibly links across to Val d'Isere and loads of scope.
If valley level snow is vital I'd suggest postponing your holiday by a month! |
Unfortunately due to scheduling conflicts we can’t postpone. However we are prepared to wait until mid-late November to see where (if) the snow is falling and are prepared to go high if we have to, even if we can’t ski back down to the resort
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@südtirolistdeutsch, I think you mean resort level snow, right? Personally I’d hold fire booking accommodation until a few days before when the picture will be clearer. There will be loads of accommodation available for peanuts at that time and there may be big variations in snowfall between West, East and Southern Alps. You will get plenty of local reports at the beginning of December to help you work out where the snow and forecast is best!
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BobinCH wrote: |
@südtirolistdeutsch, I think you mean resort level snow, right? Personally I’d hold fire booking accommodation until a few days before when the picture will be clearer. There will be loads of accommodation available for peanuts at that time and there may be big variations in snowfall between West, East and Southern Alps. You will get plenty of local reports at the beginning of December to help you work out where the snow and forecast is best! |
Great, thanks!
Is there much a difference between valley and resort level snow? I thought they were the same thing? Is valley level snow thought of as the low valleys such as the Rhône, Etsch, Aosta?
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I suppose it depends if the resort is at valley level or perched up on a plateau. In Verbier for example we’d consider resort level snow to be at 1500m and valley level to be down in Le Chable at 800m. You’d have resort level snow for most of the season but only rarely be able to ski down to valley level.
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Whilst December 2017 was excellent, Decembers 14-15-16 were extremely poor (warm ánd dry), with no real snow to speak of up to 2500 meters...
And 2018-weather already is full of extremes, both winter and summer. With one continuous factor: too warm....
As suggested, wait until early December with booking.
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Quote: |
I think you mean resort level snow, right? Personally I’d hold fire booking accommodation until a few days before when the picture will be clearer. There will be loads of accommodation available for peanuts at that time and there may be big variations in snowfall between West, East and Southern Alps.
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If you mean resort (= accommodation) level snow then that makes a big difference. Yes, far better to wait until just a few days before (not a month) before booking accommodation. To get best price on flights you might need to book them a lot earlier - and clearly that cuts down your geographical options.
With three of you, driving might be worth considering - and then the world really would be your oyster.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Champoluc and Monterosa usually open Dec 1. Champoluc is at around 1,600m and would usually have some snow in the village.
I would agree, decide location nearer the date.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w wrote: |
Quote: |
I think you mean resort level snow, right? Personally I’d hold fire booking accommodation until a few days before when the picture will be clearer. There will be loads of accommodation available for peanuts at that time and there may be big variations in snowfall between West, East and Southern Alps.
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If you mean resort (= accommodation) level snow then that makes a big difference. Yes, far better to wait until just a few days before (not a month) before booking accommodation. To get best price on flights you might need to book them a lot earlier - and clearly that cuts down your geographical options.
With three of you, driving might be worth considering - and then the world really would be your oyster. |
Thank you. Sorry for not being clearer, we have booked both flights and are going to rent a car to go wherever the snow is best! And yes I meant to say resort/accomodation level snow.
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Obergurgl and Solden should be good in Austria. Tignes (SnowHeads PSB) in France
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You know it makes sense.
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Quote: |
we have booked both flights and are going to rent a car to go wherever the snow is best! And yes I meant to say resort/accomodation level snow.
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Which airport? That will determine your choice of resort.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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südtirolistdeutsch wrote: |
Hi everyone, I'll be flying into Frankfurt from the states on December 9th |
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Poster: A snowHead
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The waiting as late as possible to book idea is sensible. Mid December should be easy to find accommodation even just turning up in a village and going to the Tourist Office. Personally I would say Ischgl is often best (a lot of the skiing is well above 2000m) though sometimes the runs to village are closed but that is no great hardship. This year the Arlberg resorts are due to open at the end of November but whether they actually do or how many runs remains to be seen.
If snow is in short supply do be a little wary of resorts that are "open" much of the snow will be artificial, better than nothing I suppose but not ideal.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Tom Doc, I read the most recent post as meaning that they had booked extra flights from Frankfurt to somewhere nearer the Alps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rjs wrote: |
@Tom Doc, I read the most recent post as meaning that they had booked extra flights from Frankfurt to somewhere nearer the Alps. |
Sorry, should have been more clear. We are only flying into Frankfurt. We’ll then rent a car to visit family and head into the alps
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I’ve not done anything other than research ski trips from Frankfurt (I go there a lot), but my idea if the snow is good would be to hire a car and go to Engelberg (although I believe it’s limited for the beginner), if not get the train and go to Zermatt.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If the snow is good, it is unnecessary to go to Zermatt (and rather unpractical, and possibly very cold in december). And Engelberg is not exactly a great place to ski....
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südtirolistdeutsch wrote: |
Great, thanks!
Is there much a difference between valley and resort level snow? I thought they were the same thing? Is valley level snow thought of as the low valleys such as the Rhône, Etsch, Aosta? |
I read 'valley level snow' as the whole valley being blanketed with white, including the whole valley floor. You'll have skiing back to the bottom/resort/village on bashed and preserved pistes for way longer (possibly before and after) than the snow naturally sits around.
If what you mean is just being able to ski back to the village, in a normal season pretty much every open resort should be able to do that by mid Dec (not all will be open though). If you want to stack the cards in your favour, then the Arlberg, Ischgl and Obergurgl remain good choices.
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So this is the upper slopes of the Savoleyres Sector in Verbier late November a couple of years ago, around 2000m. We were staying at 1500m but couldn't ski down that far - the snow stopped about 200m short of the village, at around 1600m. Plus the pistes were closed anyway below 1800m to preserve them for Christmas/New Year. The upper slopes of Verbier itself were pretty good. I'd say this is the best you'd get. Last year, very heavy snow and fog meant we didn't bother skiing and just snoeshoed a bit. So I think the advice to wait until the time is sound - then you'll know where has best snow and clear weather and as mentioned, accommodation won't be a problem.
Do you have the option to fly-in to another airport before your Frankfurt trip? I say this because if you can fly-into Geneva, it opens-up more possibilities as Geneva is near to a lot of high-altitude resorts like Verbier. Then you could do a long Weekend of skiing. You'd also have time to adjust to the time shift at leisure, which is always useful if it's a business trip.
If it's a Weekend skiing but business during the week, then of course, you're a bit more limited and somewhere more local will be preferable, I imagine. If your schedule leaves with Friday and Monday free, however, then look further afield to the Swiss/French Alps.
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südtirolistdeutsch wrote: |
How about Val Thorens? The village is up at 2300m, is this not enough for mid December? |
Yes it is and the rest of the 3V's opens that weekend too. There is reduced lift and piste opening in the weeks before Xmas but still more than enough good skiing. Courchevel 1850 will likely have better snow and be more sheltered than VT if the weather's rough. Meribel's a good compromise for location (stay there and ski wherever the snow is best) and much prettier than VT but not much of it is ski in/ski out. As with Courchevel, it depends if your budget will cover one of the better located hotels. C1850 has a lot of piste side hotels but they're at the top end of the market - might get a deal pre-Xmas though. Wherever you stay, make sure you buy the full 3V pass.
Be aware that VT or anywhere in the 3V's is a significant drive from Frankfurt. Google says 8 hours but that could easily be 10 or more depending on weather and stops. You'll need winter tyres (which I think a German hire car should have anyway) and a Swiss vignette for their motorways. French motorways are toll barriers that you can put a card in.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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“French motorways are toll barriers that you can put a card in.“
As long as you use the appropriate lane...
I would not drive from FRA. Train to e.g. Geneva faster and more relaxing and inexpensive.
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I'd concur with the plan of waiting and see what the snow gods deliver and booking as late as possible, even if you had to drive a fair bit, get a cheap overnight hotel and get to the resort the next day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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under a new name wrote: |
Train to e.g. Geneva faster and more relaxing and inexpensive. |
Not sure you researched that before posting
Train from Frankfurt to Geneva is 6-7 hours with 2 or 3 changes. You'd have to load and unload your luggage a minimum of 10 times in the day to complete your journey - that's not my idea of relaxing! Plus you've got to return your hire car in Frankfurt and pick up a new one in Geneva. I doubt you'd even have left Geneva 8 hours into the journey (with a 2 hour drive ahead of you) when you could already be in resort if you drove direct with driver changes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Plenty there to keep you interested within a 5 hr drive assuming North/East snow is good. Otherwise drive a couple more hours to Western CH/France or South into Italy if it’s been dumping down there and not come over the Alpine Ridge. With a 13 day trip i’d look at trying 2 or 3 different areas if you are adventurous
https://www.findskiholidays.com/ski-resorts-close-to-frankfurt-am-main
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As suggested arrive in Frankfurt and visit your friends and make your decision at the last minute based on snow levels and amount of piste open in the higher resorts.
I’ve skied in mid December every year for the past 12 and even in the worst winters managed it.
Best case scenario you can be skiing in deep powder on empty pistes, worse care you will be on mostly man made snow.
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You know it makes sense.
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Raceplate wrote: |
südtirolistdeutsch wrote: |
How about Val Thorens? The village is up at 2300m, is this not enough for mid December? |
Yes it is and the rest of the 3V's opens that weekend too. There is reduced lift and piste opening in the weeks before Xmas but still more than enough good skiing. Courchevel 1850 will likely have better snow and be more sheltered than VT if the weather's rough. Meribel's a good compromise for location (stay there and ski wherever the snow is best) and much prettier than VT but not much of it is ski in/ski out. As with Courchevel, it depends if your budget will cover one of the better located hotels. C1850 has a lot of piste side hotels but they're at the top end of the market - might get a deal pre-Xmas though. Wherever you stay, make sure you buy the full 3V pass.
Be aware that VT or anywhere in the 3V's is a significant drive from Frankfurt. Google says 8 hours but that could easily be 10 or more depending on weather and stops. You'll need winter tyres (which I think a German hire car should have anyway) and a Swiss vignette for their motorways. French motorways are toll barriers that you can put a card in. |
Val Thorens and the 3vs generally have had snow over the last 10 years at that time. A couple of years ago that was mainly from the snow cannon but if you are ,mainly skiing on piste then VT would be fine.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Head as high as poss.
These 3 stations always have the best early seasons and are always well open by early-mid-Dec on real or fake snow.
Wear plenty layers.
1. Val Thorens.
2. Tignes.
3. Val d'Isere.
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Poster: A snowHead
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But are all very far from Frankfurt....(please!)
Ischgl has similar early season quality, if not better
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Raceplate, no, I’ve not researched it, just done the train trip maybe 20 times or so.
Wouldn’t even consider driving.
I think I was thinking of flying vs train actually.
Quickest 5h55 with one change.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Out of curiosity I had a quick look at flights, you can certainly get Frankfurt to Geneva flights 15th Dec (Saturday) to 22nd Dec (Saturday) cheaply, but Chambéry very expensive. Didn’t put in Innsbruck or Friedrichshafen so don’t know about that but as I didn’t know which dates were really being contemplated, however would have thought it worthy further investigation.
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@NickyJ, Oh. That's tangentially interesting only in that when I was doing GVA-FRA frequently for work, so midweek, the flights were ~€2,000 and train ~€200 ...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name wrote: |
@NickyJ, Oh. That's tangentially interesting only in that when I was doing GVA-FRA frequently for work, so midweek, the flights were ~€2,000 and train ~€200 ... |
Gosh - skycanner was suggesting £137 return.
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France:
1. Val Thorens.
2. Tignes.
3. Val d'Isere.
Austria:
1. Obergurgl.
2. Lech.
3. Ischgl.
Switzerland:
1. Saas Fee.
2. Zermatt.
3. Verbier.
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