If anyone has Northwaves snowboard hardboots circa 1997-99 under a shelf I will look at taking them off your hands!
Below are links which are the exact opposite ie. positive innovation of the snowboard boot and its high level use compared too the snake oil posted above for sloths that want to ski.
A real snowboard mountaineering boot effort although others exist in other countrys .
@philwig, nice, I was wondering only yesterday if anyone had tried using a small spring and damper to control flex.
Have there ever been any attempts to do something similar on a ski boot, to give a more progressive flex maybe?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Philw I only recently saw that!
Interesting it has finally got somewhere many were hunting the the old molds... sold off as scrap they said ?
Time will tell on the ones you have linked too but I imagine not a long wait in this case if they are selling
I saw olympian Mathieu Bolzetto riding a pair in F2 catalogs but could never find a shop with them in the late ninetys early noughtys... back then we went with whatever you could try on either Burton or Raichle .
@Daishan, many times. c.f. Dynafit race boots in the 70s & 80s, Nordica at least in the 80s, Dachstein around the same time ...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The old original boots were selling for 1500- 3000-4000 euros so 890eu may be ok
After all it is free
After all it is free
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@under a new name, ah thought it must of been tried before, guessing it fell out of favour as more advanced plastics allowed for better flex?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Daishan, and presumably easier engineering/manufacturing?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
True, bunch less pieces to manufacture and less small components to brake, interesting stuff.
Wonder how many years before 3d scanners and printers become viable for custom boots. The types of plastic they can print with SLA printers is pretty impressive now.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Daishan, I'm not sure that thermo mouldable shells don't get you far enough already. I've had liners foamed twice and while I appreciate there are pressure factors, it's still a skill to get right.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Daishan wrote:
Wonder how many years before 3d scanners and printers become viable for custom boots. The types of plastic they can print with SLA printers is pretty impressive now.
Fast forward 10 years>> Download an app to your phone, use your camera to scan your feet, print your own boots on your 3D scanner!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@king key, you don't really want ski boots the shape of your relaxed, unpressured foot...
And what about footbeds?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should...
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@under a new name, you're likely right about the thermo mouldable shells been good enough but I do think there's a lot of potential for 3d printing ski boots.
Each company must produce very low volumes of each model/size of their boots making each injection mould damn expensive.
Once the plastics they can print are up to the same standards as what they currently use in production boots I can see them switching to printers instead, and if they're using printers anyway it wouldn't cost much extra to offer a totally custom boots service
@king key, would be pretty awesome but I personally think that we won't be printing nearly as much stuff at home as some people would have us believe
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
P'raps Aldi knew what they were about when they put this 3D printer on at the same time as their ski gear:
@king key, There was an article in one of the French ski magazines last winter about one boot manufacturer having tried 3D printing, CEM did ask which company it was but I couldn't remember as I had just looked at the mag in the newsagents. This company was printing the plug part of the mould, not the boot itself.
I saw it as just the kind of thing you would do as part of the R&D budget. Airbus are offering 3d printing in metal as a service and if you are going to scan anyone's feet it may as well be those of one of your top athletes. Once you have got the plug back you may as well try it out and make a few shells for the athlete to try.
The exoskeleton is fundamentally flawed as a design for skiing. I tried the Apex boots which are supposedly pretty state of the art and they certainly had impressive marketing and a roster of elderly instructors/retired pros vouching for them. Best description Gawdawful. Too clunky and heavy by half, actually get increased pain from pressure spots on the foot/nerve trapping as pressure isn't applied all over the shell and that's before the bizarre oversizing they do from the get go (which I think is part of their "comfort" proposition). If you see real skiers rocking exo boots while bringing it on the hill then it'll be time, while it's the bunny slope posse or sedate instructors etc then I'd advise caution. Doubly so if the manufacturer can't even line up vid of a good skier skiing well on them for their websute.
Dave, you have really upset me. I would so love these (Apex/Dahu/Envy) to be the solution for me. I've had boots custom fitted by CEM and I've also shelled out for custom-moulded DaleBoots, but still I end up in pain, with ice-block toes, and often limping in the evening. I'd pay almost anything for boots that were not agony and that did not penalise performance too much. I'm just a recreational skier, 95% on piste and mainly red runs. I'm going to try to sort a demo at Ellis Brigham in MK.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@koru, They might still be the solution for you. I talked to a couple of people booting up in the car park next to me who thought their Apex boots were great. Just make sure you don't fall for the oversizing gimmick ( because you'll then end up over tightening the exo to get control back). And make sure your fitter is committed to sorting out any alignment issues ( shimming/ planing etc) once you've actually tried skiing in them.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I actually learned to snowboard in Dynafit 3F Comp S ski race boots - rather like those pictured. I still have them somewhere. I don't recall finding the springs particularly useful. The little bits of plastic on the sides of the spring controlled the "walk" mode, and had a habit of breaking off on chair lifts. After replacing them a few times I just broke the flaps off, disabling the (useless) walk mode and preventing accidental engagement of it upon catastrophic chair lift impact.
Daishan wrote:
... I was wondering only yesterday if anyone had tried using a small spring and damper to control flex.
Have there ever been any attempts to do something similar on a ski boot, to give a more progressive flex maybe?
The spring is a feature of all current snowboard race boots, with a set of people who retro-fit various spring systems depending on preference. I just set up the standard things and then forget them. A little flex just makes things comfortable, but for "race-style" snowboarding at least you don't in my view want a lot of flex. Arguably the flex of a metal spring is more consistent than that of the shell material across temperatures.
The people with the big springs may be riding with other styles for example Extreme Carvers.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Dave of the Marmottes, I picked up a pair of Apex' XP boots off fleaBay ('cos as sure as S! don't taste like sugar) I'm not gonna pay $1,000 fer a pair of boots and these are as near as dammit brand new!
I needed a new pair of snowboard boots so I took a punt at $200 for them and as far as the inner boot goes they're nice and stiff and a great snug fit for boarding in.
The exo-skeleton is very heavy and appears to be immensely strong with adjustable lean, cant and flex and once clipped together feel rock solid for skiing in.
I only got them out of curiosity and for the odd time when I want to play in alpine bindings rather than tele. I'll let you know how it goes and I'll probably bring them to the eosb. I'l a snug 27 mondo if anyone wants a couple of hours to try them.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@DaveOTM
So there's a glimmer of hope! I'm like a gambler, convinced there's a big win around the corner, despite all the prior evidence to the contrary. Then again, I suppose a few gamblers do win big. And at least if Apex work for me, I'm pretty sure I won't carry on searching for the perfect boot.
I would expect Ellis Brigham will commit to making adjustments. My other option would be that there's a ski shop in Zermatt that stocks Apex and Dahu, and I'm going to Cervinia, so if I get an early start I could get to Zermatt in time for a fitting, try them on the slopes and perhaps squeeze in some adjustments (or return later in the week). But I guess I would need to take a rucksack for my old boots, to carry them all the way back. I think EB is the way to go.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
king key wrote:
Fast forward 10 years>> Download an app to your phone, use your camera to scan your feet, print your own boots on your 3D scanner!
FFwD 10 years and you'll go to a boot fitter, put on a pair of sensor laiden test boots, do 5 minutes on a skitest simulator while the computers monitor the stress patters you're generating in the boot. The system will create a generative design custom exo-boot to contain your foot in the way you move with support where you need it around a moulded inner, and print it. thing'll probably be about half the weight of a trad boot. A few further years on and you could be using a haptic feedback inners which would adjust to the surfaces you are skiing on, actively correcting for bad posture or stiffening for steeper pitches and faster speeds, and relaxing for when you're not pushing hard, effectively turning from a touring boot into an aggressive race boot and back to a friendly piste boot.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Richard_Sideways, Can I have some of what you're drinking?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Bad coffee and water at the moment, but that stuff is all in active development (at least for other purposes) Seen demos of metamaterials which can change rigidity properties depending on sensor inputs. Generative design is being used by multiple disciplines (aerospace, energy, construction) to increase strength of structures while reducing weight.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Sadly, Ellis Brigham are not doing Apex demos this year. Given that they are targeted at people who struggle with painful boots, I think it is a bit optimistic to expect customers to pay £650-800 for a pair of boots without trying them on the slopes. (If someone wanted to take a punt, might as well go for the Dahu boots instead, as they are £420-480, which is relatively cheap.)
My wife would kill me if I took a punt on these. Looks like I might have to try the day trip from Cervinia to Zermatt.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@koru, how big are your plates? Keep an eye on fleaBay , there were some mondo28 XPs for about 200 squid. Word of warning though, they are soddin' heavy
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
koru wrote:
... I'm like a gambler, convinced there's a big win around the corner, despite all the prior evidence to the contrary. Then again, I suppose a few gamblers do win big. ...
I worked in the gambling business, and what happens is that those who "win big" feel that they are "lucky", so they continue to bet, heavier than before, until it's all gone. That's why you'll find it very easy to put money into online gambling sites, where as getting money out typically involves hideously expensive paper-based processes. No one ever takes money out.
I think ski gear is different: people don't even pretend to themselves that they're going to make money by buying it
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Masque wrote:
@koru, how big are your plates? Keep an eye on fleaBay , there were some mondo28 XPs for about 200 squid. Word of warning though, they are soddin' heavy
That's the other option. At that price, I can take the chance and just resell if they don't suit me. I have small feet for a bloke - mondo 25.5. I've set up a saved search, in case any come up.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
philwig wrote:
I think ski gear is different: people don't even pretend to themselves that they're going to make money by buying it
No, but I do pretend I might find boots that are comfortable. I'm not so addicted to buying boots that I would keep doing so, if (say) the Apex were bearably comfortable.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
and these are as near as dammit brand new!
